Best 5.1 Surround Setup On A Budget?

Working on outfitting my new home theater with 5.1 surround sound. We've got wiring in for 5.1 and I also have power and hdmi in the ceiling for the projector. Initially I thought I'd just buy this Yamaha HTIB. But all the info I'm reading online seems to indicate that I will get appreciably better sound if I select the receiver and speakers independently. So I thought I might consider this Monoprice speaker set and then a receiver to go with it like this Yamaha unit.

Am I on the right track here? I'm a long damned way from being an audiophile and I mainly plan to use this setup for movies, live sports, and my kids' PS4 and Wii. My frugal mind says that I should just order the HTIB from the first link and move on to other problems but I don't want to spend all this $$$ on a home theater and then have the sound suck. Skool me pleeze!

look at craigslist electronics....people selling 5.1 systems all the time

I'm usually a big CL fan but all the receivers that I have seen listed there lately are older units that don't have multiple hdmi inputs. We're gonna need a minimum of 4 hdmi inputs as well as 1 or 2 component inputs if we're going to have the receiver switch between all the devices and send the video to the projector with only 1 hdmi cable in the ceiling. Maybe I could buy my speakers used and then find a new receiver?

Not a Yamaha fan. Look at offers from Onkyo. Their stuff sounds much better. http://www.onkyousa.com

This looks to suit your needs and is damn nice for the price: http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mod...urce=prodClass

I think the Yamaha you picked is a fine choice. You're definitely right to avoid the HTIB. They are usually bundled with garbage speakers and some off-model receiver that is SUPER limited in functionality and power. I've heard surprisingly good things about the Monoprice package, but perhaps order it directly from them instead of Amazon:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
$183.99 vs 221.53 from Amazon. Double check on shipping rates, though. Monoprice USUALLY gives me free shipping, but sometimes not depending on the item. Not hard to find promo codes, though.

Another good option for a super cheap 5.1 speaker setup is the Energy Take Classic 5.1 package. $299 from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic...dp/B001202C44/
Energy's basically Klipsch's budget brand, and while these speakers won't blow the doors off your house, it's a really, really good value.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Not a Yamaha fan. Look at offers from Onkyo. Their stuff sounds much better. http://www.onkyousa.com

This looks to suit your needs and is damn nice for the price: http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mod...urce=prodClass

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I have to disagree. So much of that depends on set up and calibration. I'm personally a fan of Yamaha due to fantastic reliability and superb sound (once they're properly set up that it). They're also usually LOADED with features for the price. I've also loved past Onkyo products, but for whatever reason their reliability has been slipping lately on a few models. They still make great stuff though, and I also love the sound from them. Also worth looking at Denon and Marantz receivers while you're at it. A lot of people love the "warmth" of the Marantz products.

For a basic 5.1 setup, I think the Yamaha RX-V477 that OP is looking at will be just fine. The main limitation on the 477 though, is that it won't convert analog video to digital, so basically if you hook up your Wii to it, you'll still have to hook up component video cables from the AVR to the TV. For analog to digital conversion (component to HDMI), you'll have to step up to the 677. I'm pretty sure it's a similar story for most manufacturers, but I may be wrong. If you don't care about hooking up an extra set of cables to your TV, then yeah, go for the 477. It will likely sound great.

You can get an Hdmi switcher from monoprice for cheap. I know it's a bandaid but they work well.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Working on outfitting my new home theater with 5.1 surround sound. We've got wiring in for 5.1 and I also have power and hdmi in the ceiling for the projector. ....
I'm a long damned way from being an audiophile and I mainly plan to use this setup for movies, live sports, and my kids' PS4 and Wii.

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There's really no answer to "best 5.1 surround sound setup" -- so many variables (personal preferences included), and such a huge spread of $ from (IMHO) cheap but decent, to $$$$$$$$ amazeballs. It'd be like asking a maggot "what's the best bike" or "what's the best ski."

Couple general comments/observations:

1) the 5 satellites/ 1 subwoofer ones (common in HTIB) can sound just fine for movies/TV/etc, but often aren't great for music. Big advantage is the small speaker size, which makes placement easier, and less visually intrusive. If this is going in your main living space, your spouse/significant other may have a different opinion on what "looks good" in there.

2) Think about speaker placement vs. your seating position, and where/how you are running wire + placing/mounting speakers. You said you have wiring in place -- are you doing in-wall or in-ceiling speakers?

3) Generally, larger, full-range speakers that work well for music will also work well for movies, TV, etc.

4) Generally, getting matching "sounding" speakers for the front 3 (front left, center, and front right) is important. The center channel is very important for home theater. Do not skimp on the center channel.

^^^
Agreed on all accounts. Great points!

Re-reading OP's desires, mainly getting everything to the AVR and a single HDMI out from there, I've realized that he IS going to need to go up to a higher model receiver if he wants his Wii to output to the HDMI. From what I've seen, you just won't find analog to HDMI conversion in any HTIB.

Also Cruiser, if you're not afraid of refurbs, then check out http://www.accessories4less.com/
Some great deals on there! I'm tempted to buy my next pre/pro gear from them. Like half the price of msrp, and when you're talking multiple thousands for components, the savings can really significant! But even in you case (budget models), you can still save a bundle. I also love Amazon for getting new stuff way cheaper than MSRP, but you already know that. :)

Thanks guys! To clarify, this is going to be a (mostly) dedicated home theater space. I'm planning a projector and 120" wall mounted screen in a recessed arch. The electrician was wiring power and light in the room so I had him run wires for the surround sound and hdmi at that time as well. He selected locations for the fronts, center, rears, and sub based on the planned seating arrangement. I was planning on mounting the speakers to the walls instead of doing in-wall or in-ceiling speakers just to make upgrading or replacing them in the future easier. It's not a huge space so I don't need house shaking sound but I do want a good quality sound experience when I turn the lights down and pop a bluray disc into the PS4.

As to the Wii, it looks like there are custom solutions available like this one that plug directly into the a/v out on the Wii and convert the signal right there to hdmi. I think that means we can still run everything through an entry level receiver without having to resort to outputs other than hdmi for any of the components.

Nah, I'm not afraid of refurb's if it gets me into more full-featured equipment at a reasonable price. For instance, it'd be nice to have a wifi enabled receiver so that I could control it with my phone or tablet. It would also be nice to have bluetooth in case we feel like streaming music in that room from the cloud. I use my Vizio 5.1 soundbar to stream music several times a week but it's in our main family room.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

The center channel is very important for home theater. Do not skimp on the center channel.

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Quoted for truth. So many folks get a nice receiver and skimp on the speakers. The quality of the speakers will determine more about how the system sounds than anything else, and the center channel is doing most of the heavy lifting. With the front three speakers, bigger is generally better - mini speakers sound, well, small. Go to a store that has a few set up next to each other (if you can) and you'll notice that the bigger speakers generally sound better. Which isn't to say you have to buy giant speakers, but don't skimp or go mini and assume that having a subwoofer will make up for it - it won't (subs are good for ultra-low frequencies, but can't make up the low mids and mids which is where most of the dialogue and music is).

It's amazing how many good av receivers are tossed because they don't do HDMI switching. I found a perfectly good Yamaha RX-V995 in the dumpster the other day. I need to A/B it with my Marantz to see which one I like best. As far as I can tell running video through the receiver does two things for you. Lets you use the remote to switch sources, and does on screen setup menus. Getting up to switch inputs is not a big deal to me (manual switch box, Monoprice), and I can hook up a monitor to do setup.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

As to the Wii, it looks like there are custom solutions available like this one that plug directly into the a/v out on the Wii and convert the signal right there to hdmi. I think that means we can still run everything through an entry level receiver without having to resort to outputs other than hdmi for any of the components.

Nah, I'm not afraid of refurb's if it gets me into more full-featured equipment at a reasonable price. For instance, it'd be nice to have a wifi enabled receiver so that I could control it with my phone or tablet. It would also be nice to have bluetooth in case we feel like streaming music in that room from the cloud. I use my Vizio 5.1 soundbar to stream music several times a week but it's in our main family room.

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Just an FYI, I've heard mixed things about the Wii hdmi converters, mainly about their reliability, BUT it's worth a shot I suppose. I've been meaning to order one for myself just to test it out. The component cables are well worth it and perfectly reliable in my experience, but an external hdmi converter would be nice if it works well. Maybe try one out first before ordering the receiver since it can be such a vital feature for many, but might not be worth it if you've found a good work around.

Funny how now you're talking about wifi and bluetooth. All worthy features that you'll enjoy, but I just love how budget creep works. The good news is that if you find a receiver that doesn't have built in wifi or bluetooth, there are lots of cheap adapters that will set you up. Most good receivers these days have ethernet ports though, so wifi's not exactly a deal breaker for me since I have Cat5e/6 all over my house. You'll love the apps that Yamaha/Denon/Onkyo has these days. Especially handy for when you wanna rock a 2nd zone...there goes that budget again! Haha.

It's funny how this project keeps getting more and more expensive. Mrs Cruiser, being in finance, was fully prepared to watch the budget explode when we started this project but I naively thought that the final number would be somewhat close to the original number.

I think denon and some good floor standers will suit you well.

for EDM junk?

I have a B&W LCR60 Center Channel that I can move if anyone is interested. PM me...

I second the refurb suggestion for a receiver. I just picked up a Denon X2100 from accessories for less and am very pleased with it. The wireless connectivity is very nice. I got it mainly to have a powered 2nd zone and it works well. Definitely stay away from home theater in a box.

Avsforum.com is the real source for info. Post a request there with your budget and you'll get some good info. There are some good boutique speaker companies out there and many are Internet direct only. Usually much more bang for your buck.

I will put in another recommendation for Onkyo. I have been running them for years and currently have a TX-NR 808 in the living room with Bose cubes and an TX-NR 818 in my basement. With the 818 I am running 5 Klipsch R-5800-W II In-Wall Speakers , 2 CDT-5800 in the ceiling and a RSW15 sub.
I was very skeptical of the in-walls and trust me the system flat out rocks. So much that it rattles the iron grates on the stove in the kitchen. It is all about the SUB and yes the center. I picked up all of the in-walls off of Craigslist and they were new in the box for half of MSRP. So much fun to be had.

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Originally Posted by danadog

So much fun to be had.

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Agreed. Home theater's so much fun!

Come to think of it OP, nothing but the new Marantz AV8802 will do, since it does everything you want. It requires a separate amp(s), so don't forget that! ;)
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=AV8802

See how quickly your budget can creep up? That's been my problem lately. I THOUGHT I'd be happy with a mid-range model ($1000-2000 model), but nnnooooo. Now I only want a pre/pro on a dedicated A/V rack with a 11.2.4 setup (11 main channels, 2 subs, 4 overheads). And that's a total chump-theater compared to some of the incredible setups people have on avsforums! It gets out of hand pretty fast. Haha.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

We're gonna need a minimum of 4 hdmi inputs as well as 1 or 2 component inputs if we're going to have the receiver switch between all the devices and send the video to the projector with only 1 hdmi cable in the ceiling.

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Time to rewire -- almost no AV receivers will transcode component video to HDMI. As you switch inputs on the receiver it will simply direct HDMI IN to HDMI OUT and component IN to component OUT. You then change the input on the projector unless it has some sort of auto-select.

The reason I upgraded my receiver last year was the HDMI switching and all my devices finally supported HDMI.

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Originally Posted by Cruiser

Maybe I could buy my speakers used and then find a new receiver?

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Seems like a great compromise..

CNET had a few recs for budget 5.1 speakers for around $500 or so I believe....

Fun project... I can't wait until my chitlins are a few year older and I can focus on projects like this.

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Originally Posted by Snow Dog

Time to rewire -- almost no AV receivers will transcode component video to HDMI. As you switch inputs on the receiver it will simply direct HDMI IN to HDMI OUT and component IN to component OUT. You then change the input on the projector unless it has some sort of auto-select.

The reason I upgraded my receiver last year was the HDMI switching and all my devices finally supported HDMI.

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Not entirely true. See my posts above. What you say may certainly be true for lower end receivers and was definitely true a few years ago, but once you start bumping up a few models, the newer receivers can indeed convert all your inputs to be able to output through HDMI. It's a great day to be in the game!...except DTS:X is coming to a receiver near you later this year. Doh! I will definitely be jumping on that bandwagon.

I'll be paying attention to this as I might be building a "tiny" container home soon. Don't want to sacrifice my tunes, so I'll be looking into a projector setup and hurricane shutters to black out the inside during the day.