Dial it back a notch

Here's an interesting piece worth reading. This is particularly personal - I knew Heidi and my son and friends were one route over and involved in the evacuation. The post-disaster controversy in our climbing community is free soloing, especially coming on the heels of the Clif Bar story with Honnold et al. Heidi was on the start of yellow Wall, a 5.11C at the Gunks. The start is just a 5.8 or so for the first 25 ft or so and that's where people start putting in pro. And that's where she fell - a 5.12 trad climber effectively free soloing something way below their level.

We all say we "understand the risk" blah blah blah. But it's bullshit. The point is, we're all free soloing sometimes. Honnold is just an extreme case. There's a saying in the kiteboarding community "don't ride farther out than you're willing to swim." I know people that drowned by ignoring that. Maybe the climbing corollary is "don't climb higher (above your pro) than you're willing to fall."

Getting to the first piece is often the most dangerous part of any climb. That, and the 3rd and 4th class climbing to get to the base of the route and on the descent. The actual roped climbing in the middle is the safe part. You can fall a long ways with a rope and good pro in the right conditions on steep or overhanging rock, as you know. But right off the ground, before you slot that first piece, is always dicey. That is truly an accident that could happen to any climber, usually when the wrong hold breaks at the wrong time, or a foot slips as happened to Heidi. Condolences to Heidi's friends and family.

There is no such thing as dialing it back a notch when soloing. Even if you can climb 5.15, once you are more than 20 feet off the ground without a rope you have cranked it up to 11 regardless of the route. I've done several of the classic 5.5 Wasatch scrambles (West Slabs and Guert's Ridge on Olympus, south ridge of Superior), and even on those fluff routes any fall is 99.9% guaranteed fatal.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

There is no such thing as dialing it back a notch when soloing. Even if you can climb 5.15, once you are more than 20 feet off the ground without a rope you have cranked it up to 11 regardless of the route. I've done several of the classic 5.5 Wasatch scrambles (West Slabs and Guert's Ridge on Olympus, south ridge of Superior), and even on those fluff routes any fall is 99.9% guaranteed fatal.

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True enough. You're right. But after going through this thing with people I actually know that were there, &/or knew Heidi personally, or were otherwise directly connected to the whole affair, one theme emerged, over and over. It's this: everybody came away with a changed appreciation of what "soloing" means. Everybody climbing Yellow Wall does it the same way Heidi did - soloing up the first section, to avoid rope drag. Fuck, Heidi followed on the same route the day before with the same partner. I think that Chris's commentary remains valid. In this case the take-away in our climbing community (which is about half the people at the gunks) is that it's not just Honnold free soling. We're ALL free soloing more than we'd care to admit. Even to ourselves. Yet do we treat it with that degree of seriousness? Not usually in my experience. If we acknowledged that reality might do some things differently? Just a thought.

Another detail: In this case when Heidi came back on day 2 to lead Yellow Wall it was barely above freezing. We know what that does to shoe friction, and it's low friction rock to begin with. Her foot popped off and she fell..

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Originally Posted by raueda1

We're ALL free soloing more than we'd care to admit. Even to ourselves. Yet do we treat it with that degree of seriousness? Not usually in my experience.

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Totally agree. I was including trailing a rope before you place your first piece and technical approaches in my "once you are more than 20 feet off the ground without a rope" definition of soloing.

Not to be a stickler, but running it out 25 feet with a rope and gear is not free soloing. Nor is it in the same vein as what Potter, Davis, and Honnold do or have done.

As for risk, all climbing regardless of ability has some level of risk. Am I going to change my ways because someone took a chance and it didn't have a positive outcome, no. Am I going to up my risks because someone else did, no. I climb for myself and at the level appropriate to the day. I don't think the notion of dialing it back is correct, what it should be is the question of whether or not at that particular moment you are prepared to accept the consequences of what you are about to embark on. Of course this offers little to the family and friends for solace, but in my family and circle of friends they know this is something that brings great peace and joy to my life and while it would be tragic not doing so would be wholly unfulfilling.

I've been apart of a couple of traumatic rescues, a couple of deaths, a couple of near death accidents. They have all impacted my life in some form or other. On each occasion I questioned is it worth it to myself or family. In the end it has been, aside from watching my child's birth the greatest moments in my life have been standing on summits. You can call me selfish and I wouldn't disagree nor would my family, but isn't it equally as selfish for my family to try and stop me from doing something that gives me great joy.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

There is no such thing as dialing it back a notch when soloing. Even if you can climb 5.15, once you are more than 20 feet off the ground without a rope you have cranked it up to 11 regardless of the route. I've done several of the classic 5.5 Wasatch scrambles (West Slabs and Guert's Ridge on Olympus, south ridge of Superior), and even on those fluff routes any fall is 99.9% guaranteed fatal.

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I think of all the 5.4/5.5 soloing I've done alpine climbing in the name of speed and some of the positions I've found myself in because of it and it makes me shutter a bit. I don't think I'll ever do it again, at this point in my life I'm content with roping up and moving a bit slower in those scenarios.

The nature of Gunks routes makes that scenario possible a good bit, though more often threatening nasty ankle and foot injuries.

But, there are things like Bastille Crack in Eldo that encourage running it out, too, and see their share of groundfalls as a result.

Part of climbing unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Boreas

Not to be a stickler, but running it out 25 feet with a rope and gear is not free soloing. Nor is it in the same vein as what Potter, Davis, and Honnold do or have done.

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Nobody here is arguing that a long runout is soloing. What's being discussed is situations like Heidi's where one climbs 20+ feet up on an "easy" start section before placing pro, or unroped 4th class/low 5th class climbing done on approaches and descents. No one has made the case that this is in the same league as what Honnold, et al. do. However, the consequences of a fall are no different 50 feet up on a 5.5 route than they are 1,000 feet up on 5.12. People often take a pretty casual approach to the former when it should be treated as a much more serious situation. "The route was well below his usual grade and capability" seems to be a common theme in free solo deaths.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I think of all the 5.4/5.5 soloing I've done alpine climbing in the name of speed and some of the positions I've found myself in because of it and it makes me shutter a bit. I don't think I'll ever do it again, at this point in my life I'm content with roping up and moving a bit slower in those scenarios.

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How many of those situations involved Derek? ;) 5.4/5.5 is a whole different beast when you're in AT boots, wearing gloves, carrying skis and other mountaineering gear, and wet/icy/super chossy cold rock is the norm.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

How many of those situations involved Derek? ;) 5.4/5.5 is a whole different beast when you're in AT boots, wearing gloves, carrying skis and other mountaineering gear, and wet/icy/super chossy cold rock is the norm.

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That's hilarious. And accurate. I'd always try and play it cool while freaking out on the inside.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Nobody here is arguing that a long runout is soloing. What's being discussed is situations like Heidi's where one climbs 20+ feet up on an "easy" start section before placing pro, or unroped 4th class/low 5th class climbing done on approaches and descents. No one has made the case that this is in the same league as what Honnold, et al. do. However, the consequences of a fall are no different 50 feet up on a 5.5 route than they are 1,000 feet up on 5.12. People often take a pretty casual approach to the former when it should be treated as a much more serious situation. "The route was well below his usual grade and capability" seems to be a common theme in free solo deaths.

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Very much agreed on these points. Just because a risk isn't realized doesn't mean you didn't take a risk. The human brain just isn't very good at picking up on that point until it's too late.

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Originally Posted by Boreas

Not to be a stickler, but running it out 25 feet with a rope and gear is not free soloing. Nor is it in the same vein as what Potter, Davis, and Honnold do or have done.

As for risk, all climbing regardless of ability has some level of risk. Am I going to change my ways because someone took a chance and it didn't have a positive outcome, no. Am I going to up my risks because someone else did, no. I climb for myself and at the level appropriate to the day. I don't think the notion of dialing it back is correct, what it should be is the question of whether or not at that particular moment you are prepared to accept the consequences of what you are about to embark on. Of course this offers little to the family and friends for solace, but in my family and circle of friends they know this is something that brings great peace and joy to my life and while it would be tragic not doing so would be wholly unfulfilling.

I've been apart of a couple of traumatic rescues, a couple of deaths, a couple of near death accidents. They have all impacted my life in some form or other. On each occasion I questioned is it worth it to myself or family. In the end it has been, aside from watching my child's birth the greatest moments in my life have been standing on summits. You can call me selfish and I wouldn't disagree nor would my family, but isn't it equally as selfish for my family to try and stop me from doing something that gives me great joy.

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are you really suggesting your family is selfish "to try and stop" you because they don't want to grow up without a dad or husband?

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Originally Posted by spook

are you really suggesting your family is selfish "to try and stop" you because they don't want to grow up without a dad or husband?

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He may or may not be but some climbers think that way. It's weird. But hey, I splitboard so what right to judge.

yeah, i know some people think that way and i feel sad for their kids and spouses. mostly kids. kids don''t willingly enter into a relationship where one of the most important things in their lives puts their own desires before their kids' futures and considers any interference with those desires by said kids as selfish on their part. go buy some blowup dolls.

There's a difference between asking your partner to stop doing what he loves, and asking him (or her) to be more reasonable and safe doing it.

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Originally Posted by Brecher

There's a difference between asking your partner to stop doing what he loves, and asking him (or her) to be more reasonable and safe doing it.

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There is no difference if we are still talking about free soloing.

I wasn't, but you're right.

Only among climbers on the internet could someone say "be safe out there," and get an argument.

To the OP, thanks for the reminder. I've got a single pitch route me and the kids like to top rope. I have to go up top and then make two moves of downclimbing to get to the anchors. Every time I do it I have to stop for just a moment and remind myself that even on a dumbass downclimb I'm on top of 50' of air and a fast, rocky deceleration.

If we don't constantly think about it, we'll take risks we aren't really thinking about, and failing to think can only increase the risk of accidents.

So, stay safe out there.

I've been wondering about this route. Is there no pro at all for 25' or is it a ton of rope drag if you place the early gear or is it just a tradition since it's only 5.8 and the 5.12 climbers think they're better than that?

I've done that route on TR and I don't remember much about the start but like you said, the climbing is much easier and it'd be very tempting to skip the pro. The top of the route is full on with big fall potential and rope drag would SUCK.

A route that has a 25' 5.8ish start that nobody bothers to protect is Directissima. I've done it a few times and gotta admit that I don't like soloing Gunks 5.8 under most conditions. That rock is just slippery if there's any humidity. Ironically, one of the few times I feel super solid soloing Gunks 5.8 is when its super cold out.