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Hi, there have been some reports of some huge avalanches triggered by ski patrol inside the Breckenridge ski area. Information has been spotty but I managed to find an image of a huge crown, posted on instagram. Attachment 148124
Any more info on this?
scary!!!!!
Jeez. Aspect definitely looks like Whales Tail.
There was some noise on f/b last week about Whales Tail and Imperial Bowl going big, and one of the posts I read had multiple people buried. When there was no mention from CAIC or the news, I figured it was just noise.
was up there on Sunday and the guns were BOOMING...I don't know if the clouds made the sound travel more, but they sounded super close.
CO has seen some pretty serious windloading events along the ridge tops. I've seen plumes several hundred (or thousand) feet in the air off the peaks almost every day for weeks now. Windslabs are getting massive especially places like the Gore, Ten Mile, and Continental Divide. Saw some massive slides this week on Red, and another peak over on the Vail side of the Gore. Not to mention the tragic events yesterday in East Vail.
Typical December for CO really, just different than the last two seasons because there's actually snow ready for transport. Just imagine having to mitigate these hazards as a patroller at one of the resorts like Breck or Loveland.
Is it just me, or is that guy standing under some serious hangfire?
its not you. and its not a guy.
I can confirm Imperial Bowl ripping out HUGE (10'-12' crown face) on a 2# charge, Saturday.
Most of Peak 7 ripped HUGE and to ground on Christmas Day. That slide came within a couple hundred feet of the Independence Chair top terminal.
A very large portion of the Peak 6 Ridge slid in two separate areas on Christmas Day as well.
There was a slide on Whale's Tail, but I've heard conflicting reports on whether it was skier triggered or avalanche mitigation work.
Another BIG crown was visible in the Humbug area of Horseshoe Bowl yesterday. Not sure if that slid Sunday or Monday.
I also noticed that it looked like Billy's Bowl slid either Sunday or Monday as well.
The north-easterly facing part of the Peak 6 "nose" slid around 12/18.
I heard this rumor from a non-FB source... that they were partials... dunno!Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
Breck confirmed that Whales Tail went.
Saw this today on FB
Attachment 148140
Looks like near Lulus in Horseshoe?Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaskier
Thanks for the info. I am puzzled why none of these avalanches are on the CAIC website and I searched for them in the news and nothing. Its odd given that I am sure a LOT of people saw at least the aftermath of the avalanches. From the images that I have seen they were just HUGE.
CAIC gets a huge amount of snow and weather obs from ski areas.
Reports of inbounds slides at ski areas, especially accidents involving control work or post control releases, are not good PR. Even control work that does result in to-the ground-slides doesn't sound good for future skiing.
You have no idea how many patrollers are caught each year, and even injured, during control work. I have no idea how many customers are caught in PCRs. It is all kept hush-hush as possible.
We all know it happens though. In this little corner of the forum, we recognize that it is the cost the mountains. The local news channel wouldn't understand, they'd just shout "avalanche at ski area XYZ" which might scare off some weekender who doesn't understand the context either. At least... I think that is why it is the way it is.
That's the Humbug crown I mentioned above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
so why has so much at breck slid this year?
I realize avalanches are normal for many of these slopes/faces, but it seems like an extraordinary amount have occured this year?
Conditions are/were prime right now. There have been several moderate to large storms accompanied by wind and it's all falling on top of snowpack plagued by deep instabilities. All it needs is a trigger. And it really hasn't been too surprising at the # of slides, but rather the size of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTF is dat
In 18 years I can't recall this many HUGE inbounds slides triggered by patrol.
do these need to be reported to OSHA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Do you think they're more aggressively performing control work?Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsummit
No, in fact I think it's the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
My interpretation is that with all the focus on new Peak 6 terrain, other routes have fallen behind. Insufficient control routes (and delayed openings) have resulted in more accumulation than normal, causing snow to rip out all the way to the ground.
Yes, wind event has caused large loads. This is nothing new. Having resources spread too thin is bigger part of the issue. Ask any patroller, "if not for Peak 6, when would peak 8 & 7 have been fully open this year"?
The only exception to that would be humbug in horseshoe bowl. That spot has a history of rapid loading and producing big crowns during snow/wind events.
BSP does an incredible job in a uniquely challenging environment. They just don't get the support they need from higher up.
The bean counters in Broomfield just don't get it. More alpine terrain requires significantly more staff. Particularly experienced staff with local knowledge. If there has been any effort to increase training of new avie techs over last few years in advance of opening P6, it is not showing up in on mtn terrain management.
I went to many meetings and urged the USFS to require VR to increase staffing significantly to handle expanded terrain. Suits and Bureacrats don't listen to locals.
Thanks for your insight. What you say makes a lot of sense, and now that you mention it, I have heard a few members of BSP complaining about the lack of sufficient staff with the new terrain on Peak 6. Haven't talked to them in a while though, and sad to hear that it's still a major problem. Hope that the recent activity has grabbed the bean counters' attention and they start listening to their staff again.
Thx for the info. It does not surprise me what you said. Sad to hear though. Ive talked to BSP a few times and like most they are a hard working great group of people. The Alpine terrain in Breck must be a total nightmare to keep safe. A lot of it is E and NE facing which historically has been one of the most dangerous aspects in the mountains in regards to avalanches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justanotherlocal
I also can't remember such HUGE crowns caused by control work in bounds on Co ski areas. A-basin SP have triggered some big ones in the past but the ones in Breck this year were just massive.
Brian Lazar from CAIC explains it well:
"So, across the deeper parts of the zone and in more wind-loaded areas, we are transitioning from a Persistent Slab problem to a Deep Persistent Slab problem. This is a scary transition, where pretty big avalanche are still possible to trigger in more than just isolated locations. I'm really worried about the next couple weeks, as small loading events, and lack of obvious signs of instability can lure people into terrain capable of producing big avalanche like the fatal slide from yesterday. These weak layers demand respect and caution. Do not poke the lion."
This applies basically to most of Brecks Alpine terrain
Only fatalities. Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Injuries are handled by the work comp carrier.
I have known of perhaps two dozen patrollers injured taking rides over 30 years. The numbers aren't as high for injuries as you would expect but they do happen. In 30 years I was caught in 3-5 large slides and perhaps another 10-12 small ones. Gotten banged up but never injured. Knock knock.
What the BSP is experiencing isn't unique, it is getting harder to find good people willing to hang their asses out for 13.00 an hour.
Management finds it difficult to justify paying those willing people more or paying for additional training when after 3-5 years they move on and take their experience with them to another career, one you can make a living at.
Everyone can say what they want, think, assume, or heard. This quote is the bottom line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion
People used to move to a ski town, become a patroler and have a career for 10-20 years or a lifetime. In summit county there are probably a dozen or so lifetime SP left. Today they make a 2 year commitment mandatory for new hires. If they didn't it'd be a one and done type job and most split after their two years. Like any ski town people cycle through spending a year to three then leave "after the have done it and notched their belt." What used to be a solid job is now filled with the normal ski town turnover which doesn't help.