School me on trucks with manual transmissions

So it's finally time to upgrade and get a vehicle with some 4wd, amongst other things. Although I'm leaning towards an access cab Tacoma with a stick, I haven't really figured this whole bit out and would appreciate any input that could be offered.

I've been driving a small car with a stick (an audi a3) for the past few years and really enjoy having that fine grained control over what the car is doing, but is it also as beneficial with a truck? I would imagine so, but never having had one, I could potentially see where it might be a PITA with a heavier vehicle. On the other hand, being able to really control the truck when in the mountains in snow, etc, seems like it would be quite useful.

So, what say you, maggots that have had / have trucks with a stick?

While I'm at it, I'd also be interested in opinions on other options - as I said earlier, I'm leaning towards a Tacoma as they seem like a good and durable truck, but haven't really ruled anything else out yet. I'd even consider some sort of SUV, were it to be the right fit.

Some other details that may or may not really be relevant: no, I don't think I really need a truck, but I do need some sort of vehicle with (1) 4x4, (2) ground clearance, and (3) I really want a stick (unless we've decided that I'm dumb for wanting this). I want to be able to drive up to the mts when it does snow every other month here in VT (haha ;)), but don't plan on doing any "real" offroading. Some dirt roads, yes, but no real class 4 roads. It would be nice to be able to sleep in the vehicle, should I need to.

Also, I'd like to note that I don't know dick about cars/trucks, so tell me how / where I'm wrong!

Thanks in advance!! :)

Why would driving a "heavier vehicle" like a taco (:rolleyes2) be a problem with a stick?

Well I was just talking to a guy that owns one today who was saying that his only regret about getting effectively the same truck I'm talking about (taco w/ a stick) was that he got it with a stick. He didn't seem too stoked about the stick and not really being able to slip the clutch much / at all.

Maybe it was that specific year (or something), or maybe it's just the truck in general, I don't know... So that's why I'm asking around before dropping some coin.

I went from a Taco with a stick to a newer one with auto. Both were fine. I preferred the stick when offroad but I don't do a lot of that. The auto is nice everywhere else. It's not a sports car.

if you don't know that you really need a truck, don't buy one. some trucks, like tacos don't ride all that well, get shitty gas mileage, have a small cab, small bed, and being a truck aren't all that great in the snow compared to most SUV's, awd cars like subies, crv's, audis, ravs, 4 runners, and so on.
trucks handle like shit in general compared to cars and SUV's. they are designed for work and carrying shit.

tacos are overpriced imo, but do hold value well. i drive stick and have for years. my last car that i had forever was a 95' Honda accord wagon. sick car. lots of room. no problem sleeping in it with gear. no need for a roof rack. got 30+ mpg and drove perfect, solid, quiet, and smooth. with a set of 4 non studded Dunlop snows it was as good as my old Cherokee on shitty winter roads. actually handled better. found an 05' crv 5 speed (very rare), pulled the larger of the 2 rear seats and the thing is as good as a small 4wd van that gets 28mpg and is GREAT in the snow with just all season radials. i never understood buying snow tires for an awd vehicle. waste of money imo.

i have owned trucks before when i had a landscaping business many moons ago on cape cod. loved em for work, but not so much for play compared to other options.

definitely go stick tho!

rog

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Originally Posted by akokskis

He didn't seem too stoked about the stick and not really being able to slip the clutch much / at all.

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Huh?

After owning quite a few trucks over the years, 1 with an auto, I hope to never again own a truck with an auto. Costs more money to repair, can[t do the repair yourself, can't coast. I have only replaced 1 clutch in my trucks and that was because my throwout bearing was squealing and I figured I may as well replace while tranny is pulled. My 1 truck with auto I had to have rebuilt twice. My brother has a '92 ford that he has owned since basically new with about 350 thou and only replaced 1 clutch with no work done to tranny itself.

All of my trucks have been sticks. Pain in the ass if you're in stop-and-go a lot but worth their weight in gold in snow/ice, off road, towing or otherwise. On the other hand, my suburban is an auto and it's pretty nice just to cruise...I guess it depends on what sort of driving you do.

Taco owner, auto and its fine. I love the idea of a stick, but from what I've picked up from tacomaworld, there are a few discussions suggesting the gearing on the auto is better than the stick. better gas mileage and such. ofocourse how you drive it will make the ultimate difference.

Also keep in mind the tacoma is a 4x4 - meaning it is a 2 wheel reardrive vehicle, until you switch it to 4x4 (hi or lo) - in which case the 4 tires basically all turn at the same speed. this is very different than all wheel drive and some of the other multi-power wheel options available on other vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Just Looking

Taco owner, auto and its fine. I love the idea of a stick, but from what I've picked up from tacomaworld, there are a few discussions suggesting the gearing on the auto is better than the stick. better gas mileage and such. ofocourse how you drive it will make the ultimate difference.

Also keep in mind the tacoma is a 4x4 - meaning it is a 2 wheel reardrive vehicle, until you switch it to 4x4 (hi or lo) - in which case the 4 tires basically all turn at the same speed. this is very different than all wheel drive and some of the other multi-power wheel options available on other vehicles.

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word.

i have the same taco the OP is looking at, newer model V6 with 6 speed manual. If i didn't drive Teton Pass every day i'd likely be better off with the auto, but it's nice having the wider range of gears in the winter on that hill.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Why would driving a "heavier vehicle" like a taco (:rolleyes2) be a problem with a stick?

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I think you found an idiot that doesn't know how to drive a stick. Either that or he's an idiot that doesn't know there's something wrong with his truck.

The weight of the truck won't matter. The truck will be geared lower than your little car making it easier to start in first gear. The low gearing though can drive you crazy in stop and go traffic.

Sticks are a dying breed, partially due to lazy Americans, partially due to the desire to get the driver completely out of the equation. Some days an auto would be nice but I dread the day I have to buy one. I know it's coming though.

You'll be happy with a taco. If you're a stick guy get a stick, you won't regret it.

Oh and you do need a truck. Every self respecting man needs a truck.

i have a wrangler stick, and the engine from my year is so piss poor with an auto it would just be deadly, need the stick to control gearing up the passes, that said, its a bitch in traffic, but awesome in snow, off road, etc... although for what it's worth, it seems[ that the big jeep modifiers, the guys running the real crazy off road stuff, are running automatic transmissions...not sure what's behind that...or maybe im just wrong,

also in my jeep at least , and i two drove small cars with sticks for years before getting a "truck" with a stick, theres a lot more play and vibration through the shift knob and lever, once read, again i don't know shit about fuck, that jeeps and many truck transmissions have the gear shift mated directly to the transmission, as opposed to routed through some linkages so you feel more of the road through the shift knob... who knows. http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-talk-26/m...on-3882/page2/ post 15.

I've got a Tundra with the 5 speed auto, an '06 so it's the old style. First auto I've ever owned, had a couple two wheel drive cars, a Blazer, two small Toyota trucks, a Ford Ranger, and a Subaru Legacy, all in manual. I like sticks, except the Ford which was on it's third tranny when I got rid of it. The auto is fine in the Tundra, you get used to it. It's not a sports car. It's fast in a straight line and does fine on snow and ice but it's no Subaru or Audi. So I don't drive on the edge, or anywhere near it. I go slower and just cruise. I don't feel like I need the extra control of a manual because it's a big lumbering vehicle anyway, you just give yourself more margin. It is really nice in traffic in the canyon and elsewhere, and it's easier to eat breakfast on the way to the hill, especially if the roads are bad.

All that said, Tacos have less power. I might consider a stick in that truck. If I could find one.

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Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

i have a wrangler stick, and the engine from my year is so piss poor with an auto it would just be deadly, need the stick to control gearing up the passes, that said, its a bitch in traffic, but awesome in snow, off road, etc... although for what it's worth, it seems[ that the big jeep modifiers, the guys running the real crazy off road stuff, are running automatic transmissions...not sure what's behind that...or maybe im just wrong,

also in my jeep at least , and i two drove small cars with sticks for years before getting a "truck" with a stick, theres a lot more play and vibration through the shift knob and lever, once read, again i don't know shit about fuck, that jeeps and many truck transmissions have the gear shift mated directly to the transmission, as opposed to routed through some linkages so you feel more of the road through the shift knob... who knows. maybe my shits broke.

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Not all the big guys run autos. I wheel with a lot of stick driving big tire turning trailer queens. Autos are popular in the rock crawling world though for four main reasons (1) smoother when you're bouncing around over rocks (2) easier to slam it into reverse when you're about to flip over backwards, this requires modified shift gates though (3) torque multiplication from the torque converter which makes it act like you have lower gearing and (4) when you have to put the hammer down to make a climb you don't run out of rpm, sometimes you need more wheel speed and shifting just isn't an option no matter how fast you are.

All that said, sticks have their benefits as well.

Things that I hate about trucks with a stick: (mostly observations from driving 3/4 -1 ton V8 trucks, maybe newer rigs are better/different.)

1. Turning around on sketch logging roads is even sketchier due to roll back.
2. Left knee starts hurting when driving through traffic
3. Roll back on steep hills in traffic sucks. I don't like slipping clutches and no hand brake makes things tough. (Maybe I lack talent.)

Pluses:
1. Control. Wheels slipping? Shift up. 4-low + 5 speed = MONEY. Pick a speed, pick a gear, let off the clutch, start driving.
2. Fuel Economy. You can coast, stay in higher gears.
3. I can't say I've ever heard of a NV or NP manual transmission wearing out. Can't say that about most autos in trucks, save for the old school 3 speed autos.
4. It helps score man points with lesser men and chicks. Just add gun rack and a can of Copenhagen and you're on the way to real manhood.

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Originally Posted by tuco

After owning quite a few trucks over the years, 1 with an auto, I hope to never again own a truck with an auto. Costs more money to repair, can[t do the repair yourself, can't coast.

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I coast every day in my auto F150, have been for years. Also, really think about the space you may end up using; I looked long and hard about getting rid of my F150 for a Taco, but didn't because it really doesn't get better fuel mileage, in fact, it gets worse in some instances. Just because the engine is smaller doesn't mean anything if you're going up large grades, a smaller engine (V6) with the weight of a truck can be more INefficient over a V8. So why not get something with more space that gets the same or better mileage? And, to contradict Just Looking, 4x4 doesn't mean all four wheels turn at the same time, without limited slip or lockers you really have ONE wheel getting power, front and rear (yes, when in 4x4) - if you're doing any serious winter driving I'd make sure your truck has at least a limited slip rear end. Outside of the Taco, it doesn't seem like you can get a stick in anything but a stripped down work truck these days. Stick is great, way more control and fun to drive. All things told though, I'm pretty happy with the Auto, in a lot of instances it's easier to feather power in slippery conditions, although having absolute gear selection might trump that for some people in certain locales.

Lastly, rog doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Tire selection makes a huge difference in winter. Softer compounds, siping, and studs GREATLY enhance traction. If you really want maximum traction (which equals safety) get a set of winter tires and switch them out.

If you plan to spend anytime at all on the boat ramp auto is the way to go. I will never own another manual truck.

I like my Mazda b2600 4x4 manual but it's dying and I want a full size next and they're all auto :( haven't had an auto vehicle yet but I like having stick in the snow, gear down and using the brakes less is nice

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Originally Posted by kevin267

I like my Mazda b2600 4x4 manual but it's dying and I want a full size next and they're all auto :( haven't had an auto vehicle yet but I like having stick in the snow, gear down and using the brakes less is nice

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GMC Sierra/Chevy Silverado 2500 with the 6.0 is available in manual. at least in the states.

You can still gear down with an auto, I do it all the time going down long hills. The truck does it automatically too in the right conditions. Works the same with low range, put it in first, second, or third to manage your speed. Works on the uphill too if you want to keep it in gear. You can coast too if you want but I think its sketchy and question whether it saves any gas.

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Originally Posted by beaterdit

You can still gear down with an auto, I do it all the time going down long hills.

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This. Just bought a new 4Runner and was looking at Tacomas. I've driven an automatic my entire life in cars I've owned, but enjoy driving stick and can drive it reasonably well. My thinking on a truck/SUV transmission at this point in time is, who cares unless you're driving a sporty car. The majority of modern cars, including the Tacoma you're looking at, have good gear selection with the automatic. If you want to engine brake, it's easy. The sport mode on that auto transmission gives you plenty of gear control for your purposes.

With the 4Runner (same engine/trans as your Taco but heavier truck), I've noticed that the auto is geared a little tall for using 5th gear a lot in the mountains. But then I'm passing at 70-80MPH on I-80 in the Sierra. Minor complaint. For me it's worth the tradeoff for easily driving in traffic, not having to pay as much attention, hill start assist, etc.

If we were talking about a WRX or an M3, different story.

I've got a 4 cyl. 4x4 manual '96 Taco single cab. It's got no options and is basically bomb proof. It's fun as hell to drive in the mountains, but sucks balls driving in the city. IMO, the new autos are better than manuals 99% of the time even though you will lose a few man points.

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Originally Posted by GPP33

easier to slam it into reverse when you're about to flip over backwards, this requires modified shift gates though

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Here's a video of what I'm talking about. Auto = better if you're doing this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykrUYFjCTM

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Originally Posted by Swine

Lastly, rog doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Tire selection makes a huge difference in winter. Softer compounds, siping, and studs GREATLY enhance traction. If you really want maximum traction (which equals safety) get a set of winter tires and switch them out.

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hey shitdick, I never said snow tires didn't enhance traction. imo, they are clutch for winter driving for 2 wheel drive vehicles. imo, buying winter tires for a good awd/fwd vehicle is a waste of money, and if you drive like a normal human being, you don't need them. my accord was a scary sled without them in the winter. amazing with. my crv kicks ass even with mediocre all seasons with 50k on the set.

rog

This just in... rog knows everything about everything.

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Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

This just in... rog knows everything about everything.

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No, he really doesn't. Fool.