Is it me? Two blown knees in a single season

Hello all :o

December 16th - Bone bruise, sprained ACL/MCL in left knee following a twisting/awkward fall in the backcountry near Keebler Pass (anthracites). Extremely lucky.

Mid-January - Given the go-ahead to ski again! Carefully...

February 18th - Torn meniscus, torn MCL and likely, torn ACL in right knee while skiing Northface at CB. Again, strange twisting fall. No jumps or hucks (I was being careful...) Caught a tiny bit of air off of a hidden rock, skis twisted underneath me. Couldn't walk or stand, let alone ski. I was able to crawl to the cat track to make the extraction easier. Lucky, off duty ski patrol skiing just above me. Even luckier, close and new friends with beer and many hugs on hand while waiting for the sled.

Both times: riding BD Joules with dynafit set up, dens set at 6. 115ibs, 5'1.
I'm an aggressive skier, but a smart skier. And left with little more to do, I have to wonder - is it me? my gear (bindings, etc.)? or is it just one of those seasons?

The husband is certain that I'm skiing too hard (why can't I ski like the other guy's wives?) I think it's just unlucky. Any input?

Either way, here's to a happy and healthy recovery to all and a fabulous and snowy rest of the season :biggrin: I think I've made my sacrifices to the snow gods that be and have a good summer/next winter to look forward to.

Snow gypsy: Sometimes when we are being "careful" or "dialing it back" we can be just as exposed to injury but in different ways. Not to mention it sounds like a terrible season at CB and snow snakes lurking in hollow snowpacks are a fact of life, I know that's what took me out last year.

When I got hurt, I was entering a schralped out little chute over a cliff. Upon seeing that the little shot was scraped out, I made a split second descision to throw the skis sideways at the entrance just to ensure I didn't get too much speed and have my skis go out from under me at the drop. In that instant that I decided to pull back and throw the skis side ways for just a second, my skis poked into some pow hiding a pine tree branch on the edge of the chute and my season was violently and painfully over.

I often look back and think, I should have just pointed it. This season I have a whole new bag of bullshit to deal with, knee pain resulting from quad muscle imbalance left over from surgery. As soon as I start compensating or skiing defensively, I know it's over and time to go home. I can feel myself having bad form, skiing backseat, etc. Those are things that tend to happen I think when we are compensating from a recent injury and trying to just be cautious. It's not good and it certainly can set you up to injure the healthy leg. I am finally on the right track again now that a second physical therapist has pinpointed what I have been shown wrong by the other therapist, but I have had to deal with only getting a handful of days in so far this season. Now I am realizing I still have some serious work to do, a year after acl surgery. I just feel like skiing the gnar/variable terrain/snow is not worth it anymore unless I'm 100% is what I'm sayin I guess.

It's been super humbling to realize just how perfectly the body needs to be functioning to be able to ski well. I thought I was near 100% in early January, then all of a sudden, with no warning whatsoever, I got smacked down to 10% without even having an incident, all because my muscles weren't working together properly.

Sorry about the sob story, and I don't mean to armchair your accident or harshly criticize you, just hope that perspective might help you out in the long run. Best wishes.

^^ Excellent post! Mimics my experience 100%. I feel pretty stupid because I bought all this new gear cuz I was feeling 100% in November and now I'm struggling to ski once a week. In November, tore my hamstring in freaking yoga! Finally saw the right PT who now has me pissed at every other PT I've ever seen. I'm 3 years out of hip surgery and 1.5 years out of knee surgery, and I'm still just now feeling like my compensation issues are starting to fade away. And once I'm done with PT, I'm going to see an exercise physiologist to make sure I get strong again correctly. For now, I try to ski in a forward, aggressive stance without being aggressive.

I'm really finding that injuries perpetuate injuries. If I would have taken care of the hip to begin with, I am confident I wouldn't have messed up my knee, wrist (rock climbing), shoulder, and ankle. (They are all on the left side.) Take care of your body and get it super strong in the gym.

Oh, and I'm only 23 years old. I can't imagine how hard it'd be to recover if I were even 10 years older. Not looking forward to it. This isn't meant to sound whiny; others have it much worse than I. But that's my story.

I'm a left-sided list of injuries, too...

My advice to anyone nursing a bunch of injuries that don't heal as fast as they should - stem cells.
Magic in a hypodermic for me.

Are they doing stem cell therapy for ACL reconstructions yet?
Heal up!

Whether it was or wasn't you in the past, it definitely is you now!

I've had a bunch of friends blow acls over the years while I had chronic back problems. I always thought that was the trade off; they had their knees, I had my back, even had disc surgery about ten years ago.

Then I tore my acl. Now, whether I like it or not, it's me going for surgery, doing the rehab, examining what I did wrong to cause the injury, and wondering how well I'll come back next year. You can take comfort in the knowledge that this is typically not a career ending injury, but the rest is a lot of guesswork, and even more patience.

I guess my only question would be are you going to have surgery on both knees at the same time? I could see this being problematic for a couple of reasons, but I know that's how some folks go. I don't think I'd want to be hobbled on both legs at the same time, but I'd probably only stagger them by a month or so.

I agree with Tone and auvgeek that skiing while compensating for one injury might actually make you more prone to further injury. Even with something as minor as a sprained back muscle, I would ski tentatively and in protective posture. I don't ski well when I'm in pain, even if it's just breaking in some new boots, and I feel like that timidity leaves me more susceptible to further injury.

I guess that I've been lucky in that so far skiing injured has only led to prolonged recovery and not another new, different and exciting injury to go with the one I've been nursing.

Good luck with your surgery/recovery.

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Originally Posted by splat

I'm a left-sided list of injuries, too...

My advice to anyone nursing a bunch of injuries that don't heal as fast as they should - stem cells.
Magic in a hypodermic for me.

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Despite their use of the word "data" as singular, this looks promising. Attachment 110730 Thanks splat, might have to check that out if the knee and shoulder continue to piss me off.

My wife blew her ACL and tore her MCL at the Battle Abbey hut in BC last season. she was skiing one of the easiest runs of the trip on the last day. She was on BD Starlets and Dynafit ST's at the very lowest Din setting, which is like 4.5 or 5. She had brakes on but did not put in lighter springs to compensate. She is just under 5'-4" and is about 125. Personally, I think the lateral heel release numbers could be lighter for these bindings, due to the somewhat strange leverages from a sideways heel release. She somehow tore her knee and then fell.

ACL's are more of an awkward injury than violent. My torn ACL last year was a 6 foot drop off of a cornice that I had hit all morning except I took a different approach and landed on the front side of a mogul. I knew I was going to fall and went with the fall and as my body carried over the mogul my ski got hung up on the frontside and it was only a slight hyperextension and twist and POP. My knee never swelled and I was walking without a limp in 2 days. Thought it was a sprain till it gave out playing basketball 6 weeks later.

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Originally Posted by skioride

ACL's are more of an awkward injury than violent.

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This. At least in my case, the force it took to tear my acl wasn't enough to release my binding (soly 912) at my recommended din.

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Originally Posted by skioride

ACL's are more of an awkward injury than violent.

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This I would certainly agree with. My crashes were far from spectacular. if it wasn't for the yelling in pain, they would have been phone camera worthy.
It's been a hard year in CB, but one of the best seasons I've ever had as far as friends, fun, life go - I recently lost my 9-5 and spent a few glorious weeks loving life like I haven't in years.
tone capone - thanks for sharing! More than the physical consequences and rehab, I'm more concerned about the mental game, about trusting myself, my decisions, and my abilities on skis in the future. Any input on this? More than physically, I'm terrified of being terrified to get on my skis again (though that's all I can think about).
MRI on friday to confirm the game plan. Definite surgery on the right knee - left knee had gone through extensive rehab and should have already been good to go...It's a long road and I'm currently just looking forward to a few late weeks of biking. 401 in August anyone? :biggrin:

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tone capone - thanks for sharing! More than the physical consequences and rehab, I'm more concerned about the mental game, about trusting myself, my decisions, and my abilities on skis in the future. Any input on this? More than physically, I'm terrified of being terrified to get on my skis again (though that's all I can think about).

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I definetly had those exact thoughts, but I personally came to the conclusion that if it can happen the way it did to me, then it certainly could happen again skiing or doing anything really and I just have to suck it up and do certain things differently to minimize the odds. I am also just going to carry some leftover oxy's in my pack in case I ever do have to crawl out of somewhere. If I get hurt and don't make it then so be it, much better men and women than I have died in this sport. I know I don't wanna sit around and wait to get cancer.

So in the end, I was very happy to put the mindfuck behind me and just ski. I did, and it was going well, but then the crippling consequences of physical imperfection crept up on me and now it is as real as ever that I can't ski because of injury. At this point I am mentally as ready as I'll ever be, I know my mind knows how to ski on my rebuilt knee, but I personally cannot currently escape the tyranny of my current imbalanced biomechanics. I learned this week to turn my ankle in and point my toes up while doing quad sets and straight leg raises to engage my v.m.o. better. One little piece of info that might have saved me alot of misery if I had known it from the beginning.

I am saying all this only so you don't underestimate the physical part of recovery. Get more than one opinon anytime something doesn't seem right.

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401 in August anyone?

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Now your talkin. The process you will go through getting back up to speed on the mountain bike will help to rebuild your overall mental confidence. It's a wonderful tool. Be safe, +++ vibes and best wishes!

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

^^ Excellent post! Mimics my experience 100%. I feel pretty stupid because I bought all this new gear cuz I was feeling 100% in November and now I'm struggling to ski once a week. In November, tore my hamstring in freaking yoga! Finally saw the right PT who now has me pissed at every other PT I've ever seen. I'm 3 years out of hip surgery and 1.5 years out of knee surgery, and I'm still just now feeling like my compensation issues are starting to fade away. And once I'm done with PT, I'm going to see an exercise physiologist to make sure I get strong again correctly. For now, I try to ski in a forward, aggressive stance without being aggressive.

I'm really finding that injuries perpetuate injuries. If I would have taken care of the hip to begin with, I am confident I wouldn't have messed up my knee, wrist (rock climbing), shoulder, and ankle. (They are all on the left side.) Take care of your body and get it super strong in the gym.

Oh, and I'm only 23 years old. I can't imagine how hard it'd be to recover if I were even 10 years older. Not looking forward to it. This isn't meant to sound whiny; others have it much worse than I. But that's my story.

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There is actual neuroscience that supports this, injury begetting injury and same sidedness. Your nervous system is smart. Designed for efficient mobility, initially so a sabertooth wouldn't eat your ass, now for much more benign needs (in most cases). You sustain an injury you body makes changes to your postural orientation so you can still move as efficiently as possible while managing the restrictions of the injured part. Brilliant right. Unfortunately, the nervous system is also an input oriented controller, the more you repeat a pattern, whether its putting your pants on the same way, turning right every morning to fill the coffee pot, or walking around without normal pelvic/hip alignment the neurons get wired in, to the point you don't even realize things are f'ed, until you up the ante with more dynamic motions, or in later years with development or arthritic joint changes, yada yada. Its more than developing strength, although thats important. Variability in motion, recognition of your body's integration/synergies, reduction of co contraction (including the muscle guard of dialing it back), etc, are critical IMO. our bodies can make immediate changes, but they need correct input to replace the faulty patterns, then dynamic motion is more effortless. physical and mental recovery are inseparable.

good luck. enjoy the journey.

^^ Yes, I agree completely!! Excellent write-up, though.

This is what most PT's and doctors fail to understand with my injuries. They would only tread the specific issue I was having at the time without addressing the body as a whole or the underlying symptoms. I finally have a PT who is addressing the underlying compensation and postural issues associated with playing soccer/skiing/climbing for 4 years on a bad hip, and then another 3 years on a functionally "healthy" but compensating hip.

It took me a long time to find the right PT, but now that I have, things are starting to make a hell of alot more sense. The first thing they asked me to do was just balance on my left leg. Couldn't do it. I climbed Mt. Rainier last summer (off the couch on a whim), and I couldn't even stand on my left leg! Blew me away.

Anyway, this is becoming about me, and I don't want that to happen in Miss Gypsy's thread.

apologies snow gypsy for the drift. just to bring it back, I certainly still believe in just shitty luck, sometimes shit just happens, you can dick with all the external and internal controls and things still go wrong, comsi comsa. but, while someone is skiing around with conscious awareness of how not to get hurt they are inhibiting the neuromotor speed that might save them from injury. its just how the brain works, as one area is excited it naturally is inhibiting the nearby regions, I don't know enough about it, but it would seem it could also be inhibiting associated areas away from that specific area of excitation

with Re to recovery. I think its important for people to realize, PT training is largely reductioinistic, there is a place for it, especially when focusing on "normalizing" the effected joint. but at some point in your recovery the focus needs to shift to a (w)holistic approach, if your not having these discussions with your PT, trainer, etc, start, not everyone is at a place in their development to appreciate the impacts whole body utilization can have to influence and improve their sense and quality of movement