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Just saw this on CNN. No details on the 'net yet but looks like two BC skiers caught. Large slab....tune into CNN for more info. I am searching 'net now for details.
Please no more maggots....
EDIT: Nothing on the web yet, according to CNN they learned of it a few minutes ago (2:55 PM MT). Hope everyone is ok.... :(
i was beat to it - link to disscussion in TGR ski/snowboard:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=23287
live tv here:
http://kutv.com/home/
its getting hammered pretty hard tho
The UAC called the snow conditions. From that morning's advisory:
"Avalanche Conditions:
Large and deadly avalanches continued to release early Thursday morning. Activity included at least four large natural avalanches, two avalanches from helicopter skiing test explosives (photo), and a hand full of slides from resort control work. All of these had a 3-5’ fracture line depths with the largest in West Monitor (photo) up to 9 feet deep in one section of the crown face. One of these natural avlanches released in skier compacted terrain at one of the local ski areas. These all released due to added weight from wind transported snow over the last 48 hours. The avalanche activity is widespread enough to make most avalanche professionals nervous."
Here's the link to the complete text & photos:
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/archiv...4_advisory.htm
People stepping outside the ski area need to pay attention.
posting in here because i don't want to be involved with the canyons thread in ski/snowboard.
a kid from my avy class today was riding with one of the deceased from yesterday. he was the next to drop off the cliff when the slope avalanched. he said one of his friends made it off the slab into the trees but the other only made it into the trees not to be found. i think he is the one that was found today.
the guy wasn't sure what the trigger was since a guy was hucking a cornice right at the top of the slope while they were dropping the cliff down lower. he said that there was a guy up there making a documentary on why people do crazy things. he was apparently filming the guy hucking the cornice. he also noted that from talking with other witnesses that there were plenty of people on and under that slope when it went.
also noteworthy is that his beacon, shovel/probe was in his truck that day.
APD...that's terrifying. Clearly that slope was being viewed as controlled terrain by the users. Not that that makes any differance as it is clearly not controlled terrrain. The issue seems to be in peoples understanding of what that means, not in the delineation of the two by the resort or the NFS as the signage is not subtle by any means. Sadly there will most likely be legislation to follow this incident as big brother will surely see this as a chance to grab some limelight in the guise of protecting the innocent while in actuiality it will only protect the ignorant, which will only breed more ignorance.
Thanks APD.
That's what I was afraid of. Gang skiing + hucking in uncontrolled avalanche terrain w/spectators in the runout.
No beacon, shovel, probe or clue.
Edited to add this occurred the day after the huge natural slide went in W. Monitor bowl <1/2mi away. Nine foot crown. Reported in the UAC daily advisory. Same exposure & elevation:
http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/Adviso...tos/crown2.jpg
Imagine the difference in outcome if they followed protocol and had only one person on the slope at a time (even without beacons, etc). Only one would be buried, instead of several. :(
Follow the rules of avy protocol every day. It might just save your life.
Have you heard this actually mentioned or are you just speculating? I was out there during what I believe was the first season Canyons was open as Canyons and another tragic slide occured in what looks to be the same area as this slide, killing a husband and wife with a kid in day care at the bottom. Sad stuff. If I remember it was a stormy day with plenty of powder inbounds, but they decided to check out the BC with no gear. I remember thinking that was the end of BC access out of canyons, but it seems the buzz died down over time? Curious to see what happens with this. With the coverage of the Las Vegas avie incident and now this you know the lawyers are lining up somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by truth
That was in an area to the north of this slide. Past square top in another bad open area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pura Vida
Figured I'd post this here too as it's a general history of the area.
I wondered when this suggestion would be brought up (taking the gate down lower on the mountain). It's not a bad one per say, but there are ramifications to a lower gate which you'll see below in the photo.
Time for a litte history lesson:
That bowl was used by backcountry skiers and heli-skiers "back in the day" I ran accross a photo in an issue of Powder Mag from 89 or so of that bowl with one track in it. It's a beautiful photo. There was even an avalanche death there years before The Canyons even existed. That's why on the signs it says people have died in this area.
In 1998-99 season The Canyons put in a lift to about 250 feet shy of the summit of peak 9990. Prior to this lift being put in you could hike from the lower lifts to the top of 9990 and then over to Dutches but it took about an hour or two of boot packing (before I knew about skins) and so I only did it 4-5 times. I never once saw a track in Dutches and when I was back there and it looked like this:
http://www.feedthehabit.com/pics/ski...0untracked.jpg
and this: (although I knew people skied it I never saw a track)
http://www.feedthehabit.com/pics/ski...racked%202.jpg
After the lift was put in you couldn't get off the lift and turn to the south or left like you can now. You could hike up to the top of the peak 9990 as you do now, but there was no gate up there and ducking of that rope was virtually non existant except the few that had skins and bc knowledge and most all of those people were skiing the backside of this peak as it descends to Desolation Lake and into Beartrap Fork. In order to reach the saddle between 9990 and Dutches on the ridgeline one had to ski down and uder the 9990 lift cutting to the south/skiers right and then follow the ropeline until it ended where you'd traverse into the bowl adjacent to 9990 (which is the green line in the image below) The boot pack started up which was where the red line is below:
http://www.feedthehabit.com/pics/ski...%20history.jpg
There were a fair amount of people who bootpacked, mostly because it was so short of a hike and frankly it was faster than skinning. A lot of the people only had alpine gear as well - and no bc equipment. The resort constantly pulled passes of those cutting the ropes far above the common "gate" and the traverse, which by doing so punished those cutting the rope who were endangering themselves and those below who were in a slide path. The next year they extended the rope down about another 150 feet so you'd have to hike further back up to reach the saddle and then the ridge to Dutches.
Furthermore, when 9990 was tracked up EVERYONE would just ski down the ropeline. After 2 1/2 seasons of this in the winter of 00-01 the resort changed the gate to the top of the peak, in mid season. I was up there when we skied down to the old lower gate and it was gone, replaced by a long rope which went another 500 feet down. The patroller said - it's closed and will be moving to the top. I was with the first group to hike the peak and exit the new gate. Placement of the gate was a catch 22 for patrol and the resort who wanted to keep an open gate policy but wanted to minimize the results of said gate. Plus the patrol was sick of being a rope-police-patrol.
The second year that 9990 was open (1999-2000 season - I think) a couple died on SquareTop, right in the middle while skiing it during a major storm. Patrol had even mentioned to them as they started the hike that it was dangerous out. Nobody I knew was in the BC that day. Here's a pic of Square Top taken last year.
http://www.feedthehabit.com/pics/ski/SquareTop_lrg.jpg
The next year, 2000-2001 season a woman died when after entering a slope, skiers left off of the Sqare Top photo, while following her husband she lost a ski and he daughter, son-in-law, and nephew all dropped onto the slope to help her with her ski the slope cut loose burying the women and son-in-law completely. Somehow, some snowboarders nearby hear the son-in-law screaming as he was under the snow and dug him out. I spoke with him about an hour later and it was chilling. I had dug a pit on a similar slope about 500 yards away earlier that morning and said to myself and my party, "I wouldn't drop this slope today for a million bucks". I heard the screams of the family after the slide but a cloud had descended between me and the family and I couldn't tell where it was coming from.
While these accidents were on slopes North of 9990, the immediate slope to the South has been commonly labeled as "safe" and "a lesser tracked "run" of The Canyons". As this stuff get's tracked up people are "forced" farther down the ridge for untracked. To the North and South there seems to be an imaginary line of "safety" where few travel beyond. The mother-in-law death seemed to put a line to the North. I think this slide will bring the imaginary line to the South even closer than it was (Big Mac was the general line to the south)
Fast forward to last week. Of the thousands that have gone out of that gate on top of 9990 there have been 2 slides with fatalities since the gate went to the summit. There have been a lot of close calls and a lot of the people skiing/riding The Canyons today have lost thier respect for the adjacent slopes, until now. I've heard many neighbors and friends tell me they're never going out there again and then tell me about last week, or last month, or whenever they were out there last with loved ones and weren't using gear or precaution. It's a different place for sure, but for how long?
He did have a clue, but went anyway, apparently skipped a different section as he felt is was sketch. How the media knows all this, I don't know or if that first sentence is totally accurate. He was an EMT, Firefighter, pre med student and had just finished an avy course, that is fact. Why he had no gear on him, we will never know. Very sad, very. Saw interview with family on this evenings news. Very sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredgar
Does that seem accurate APD if you have talked to his partner? I am only going by the news on this one and you know how the media was all over the board with their "facts" on this one.
it sounded to me that it was more of a hindsight thing. he mentioned skiing a lap on the treed area lookers right of the cliff. he said that they skied trees for anchors and then he said that they were looking at it for their next lap. on the next lap they went further up the slope, past the cliff to the main slope, and decided to return to the trees since they did not like the looks of the main slope. they then proceeded to drop the cliff into the main slope. the first guy to drop did not trigger. the second guy likely set off the slide. i was told that the first guy made it out. {for those that don't know, dropping a cliff is the equivalent of a fridge sized cornice drop. a fridge sized cornice drop is the equivalent of a hand hand charge. this is the same way the skier in the brighton backcountry, that broke his leg, triggered an avy and got buried.}Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzworthy
btw, this guy was on a board so he may not have had the speed to outrun the slide or the ability to release from his bindings once caught.
Those trees (called Soul Patch) are tricky because the entrance to them is a wind loaded little slope that's 35 degrees. Then once below the trees if you head right onto the main slide path between the cliffs it rolls over at around 38-40 degrees. Plus there is a lot of slope below the trees once you exit if you continue fall line. I've skied those trees countless times. It's not a sure bet of safety to ski those trees.
Those cliffs are about 20-40 depending on where you hit them.
I've only launched the lower cliffs.
they may have hit the lower cliffs further below the tree stand. bruce, not tremper, an avy observer for the uac said that he glad to see that what he skis on dutches in high danger did not slide. it is far skiers right of dutches. we went up there today to have a look at the slide only to be turned away by patrol at the ridge. i did sneak some shots from an interesting perspective though. i'll post them later if i'm not too tired.
i think this may be the cliff band they jumped off of:
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic32163.jpg
the crown:
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic32161.jpg
stress fractures from bombing. this is the are where others ski when the avy danger is high (lookers left of the pic):
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic32160.jpg
this is the big picture. notice the location of the lift. not much work when the line leads back to the bottom of the lift. looks like resort skiing with high consequences to me.
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic32162.jpg
feel free to x-post in the other thread.
not sure if this is in the other thread or not, but i think the search has been called off. From the Utah Avy Center Report Today:
"...the search has been called of in Dutch’s Draw with a final fatality number of only one which is much lower then expected. "
Link: http://www.avalanche.org/%7Euac/advisory_w_glossary.htm
yeah, they called it off saying they don't believe that anyone is left in the debris even though they still can't account for 3 people on their list and have found gloves and a sweatshirt that does not belong to the man recovered. i think they are trying to be optimistc but from the witnesses that the victims partner spoke to there should still be at minimum 2 people in there.
I talked to one of the searchers who was heavily involved with the search (from SL CO SAR). Neither the witness or the victims partner recognized any of the clothes that they found. People build kickers in the flats below there all the time, it wouldn't suprise me if those items were forgotten by some 15 year old kid weeks ago, got buried by new snow and the slide churned them up. Having said that, it also wouldn't suprise me if there are more people in there. The other 3 people haven't contacted any family members for months and no one has reported them missing. I think if a friend or roomate hadn't heard from any of them in a few weeks and reported it, they would be back there searching. It also seems that disappearing for extended periods of time is not unusual for this group of people, so who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
fox 13 telecast from 2plank
just putting this over here for those that may have missed it both on the news and in the main forum. it sounds like the account i heard from the other boarder was the same as the interviewed. still very sad.
I headed up to the debris field last Friday(week after slide) and took a look around with some friends and patrol. First off, the pics do no justice to how large this thing was. Just mind boggling. The crown looks like a couple feet from the bottom, not the 10 or so that it really is. I walked out on the debris pile for a bit and was pretty shocked by how hard the snow was. Not as hard as concrete, but pretty damn close(might need to add an ice chipper to my pack.) It was pretty eerie to be there seeing probe holes and pits dug and left open from the search process. The energy in the air just didn't feel right and if i was a betting man I would say there's still someone there.
http://bradstewart.com/gallery/album...e/IMG_2910.jpg
From peak 5.
http://bradstewart.com/gallery/album...e/IMG_2915.jpg
The trigger was a boarder jumping the cliffs. Actual line of the cliffs was about 15 feet in from the lookers right flank, just under the lone tree slanted to the right.
http://bradstewart.com/gallery/album...e/IMG_2923.jpg
Run out. Each of these snow ribs is about 4-5 feet high.
http://bradstewart.com/gallery/album...e/IMG_2929.jpg
Snapped trees.
Two pages of pics here... http://bradstewart.com/gallery/12105...alanche?page=1
So, those poles in the ground are snow ribs? What is their purpose?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtagley
the poles are probes. the ribs are waves of snow that setup in that shape. there is no real scale for you to tell but they look to be about 4' deep. the poles are likely 20' with 10' sticking out of the ground.