Ex wants to move out of state with kids. What are my rights

Before marrying, and pregnant with our first of three, my now ex wife moved out to Tahoe with me and we were later married. Now, after being divorced for 4 years, she wants to move back to Florida with the kids (2 of them anyway, the oldest will be a senior next year and wants nothing to do with it). while i think this will suck the big one for me, i don't necessarily think it will be a bad thing for the kids. i'm not certain i want to fight it, but at the same time i want to know what my rights are before we have the talk.
we currently have a joint custody arrangement whereby time is split evenly and no money changes hands.
anybody got any knowledge to share.

Varies state to state. Usually, the court will just look at what's best for the kids first, and what's best for the parents comes second. You might be able to get some money for your cost to travel to visit the kids in FL. Try to work it out with her because a lawyer is going to roll you for a bundle of money to fight this.

definitely don't want to get the courts/lawyers involved. just kind of want to have an idea what i can expect if the girls decide they want to stay here (cali).
some things i expect i'll face.
the schools aren't great here, but they're basically safe. i'm guessing in miami she will want to put them in private school. would i be responsible for half of the increases in expenses that may arise as a result of her decision, or do i have some bargaining power as a result of her wanting to leave the state.
her mom lives there, and she has inferred that moving there would mean her mom would pay for things like that, but she lies and i expect her to try and bleed me for everything she can, so i want to be prepared. i know that sounds callous since it involves the kids, but it's a bitter pill to swallow to think it could cost me more to not have my kids than it would to have them.

Lawyers are despicable parasites,but sometimes you need one.

At the very least you need some professional help.Perhaps a mediation type service would have your answers.

Sometimes NOLO press has the info
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...y-law-divorce/

There could be an issue of where the you and the kids have an established residence and if that changes with a move out of state, then the idea of the joint custody could become much harder. Her responsibility could end up being paying for the kids to get back for visitations, but this would all be part of the new terms if say now they spend some days of the week with you and some days with her. That now maybe most of the school year at one place and travel to the other during the summer and school vacations, etc.

Not a lawyer- just have heard others talk of issues, so probably need to at least discuss your options to negotiate new terms or have some sort of mediation if there is not a chance that the 2 of you can come to a new agreement. What is best for the kids needs to be considered also of course.

Tell her to forget it. Big moves are tough on kids. Anything she agree's to she can re-neg on, and sounds liek she will.

I say this because I was in Tahoe once, facing some of the same decision's as you. It didnt work out so well for me.

Get thee to a family attorney immediately. Seriously. We're assholes and bullshit artists that have a monopoly on shit you all could do on your own...however....this is exactly the time you need one. Find a good one, pay for it and tell the attorney you don't want this to be contentious, you just want to protect your rights to see your kids.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Get thee to a family attorney immediately. Seriously. We're assholes and bullshit artists that have a monopoly on shit you all could do on your own...however....this is exactly the time you need one. Find a good one, pay for it and tell the attorney you don't want this to be contentious, you just want to protect your rights to see your kids.

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^^^ As a non-family law attorney, I agree 100%.

^^^Third. Pay for some good accurate advise. You don't need an attorney to fight that battle, at least not yet, but an hour or two go go info at the start of this will save you a bundle in the end.

Or you can listen to dentists.

My last lawyer/ski bud used to say his job was to organize the affairs of people who had somehow failed to do it themselves

get advice from a lawyer

i have NO concerns about her letting me see the kids. we've always been very good that way. she is greatly concerned because her father left when she was young, and she wants the kids to have their dad.
not all of my concerns are legal either. i would be interested in hearing how others have dealt with this type of custody arrangement successfully before. what works for the kids?
the obvious answer would for them to visit during the summers, but that's when i work a lot so it would be like them coming to visit me and me not being there. OTOH, if they were at there mom's all winter, i would be able to work more then.

i guess the one thing i am looking for here is the answer to this question. given that we have a joint custody agreement here in california, can i simply say, "No, you can't take the kids?"

That sounds like a hardball statement to make, and since things seem to be pretty amicable for this type of situation compared to most, I wouldnt want to fuck that up.

Frankly, since you work so much and wouldnt be able to spend much time with them its tough to side with you. One is staying already.

Sucky situation I know, but I think youll be making some flights to Florida if you ask me. Pay for it yourself. Id gladly take on some plane ticket expenses than child support so she can upgrade her car to a newer model or some shit.

Even if you and ex can reah an understanding, you need legal advice. The last thing you want us for her to go to court in Fl and get some order that is contrary to your interests. The rights and responsibilities need to be wrapped up here, which I assume is where the divorce took place, before she moves.

And Hayduke...you can suck a big one

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

That sounds like a hardball statement to make, and since things seem to be pretty amicable for this type of situation compared to most, I wouldnt want to fuck that up.

Frankly, since you work so much and wouldnt be able to spend much time with them its tough to side with you. One is staying already.

Sucky situation I know, but I think youll be making some flights to Florida if you ask me. Pay for it yourself. Id gladly take on some plane ticket expenses than child support so she can upgrade her car to a newer model or some shit.

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i really have no intention of saying that unless the kids make it clear to me that's what they want. there are no "sides" yet. the ex is fine with them visiting me in the summer, we're just not convinced that is the best situation for all. i'm not convinced there is a best situation.

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Even if you and ex can reah an understanding, you need legal advice. The last thing you want us for her to go to court in Fl and get some order that is contrary to your interests. The rights and responsibilities need to be wrapped up here, which I assume is where the divorce took place, before she moves.

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thanks. i hadn't considered that as a possibility.

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Originally Posted by powdork

i guess the one thing i am looking for here is the answer to this question. given that we have a joint custody agreement here in california, can i simply say, "No, you can't take the kids?"

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I can't speak for CA, but if that agreement was in CO I believe the answer would be no, you can't simply say that. Or, more accurately, you could, and she could go to court and seek permission to move, ie seek to modify your custody agreement. Whether she would try, or be successful at it if she did try, I have no idea. But the existing agreement defines the existing situation, either party could always seek a change in that agreement based on a change in conditions. which is why...

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Get thee to a family attorney immediately. Seriously. We're assholes and bullshit artists that have a monopoly on shit you all could do on your own...however....this is exactly the time you need one. Find a good one, pay for it and tell the attorney you don't want this to be contentious, you just want to protect your rights to see your kids.

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this is good advice. You don't need to involve lawyers, just do a consult with one so that you know where you stand legally. So that you can talk to her from a position of knowledge, and understand what the courts might say if you two can't work it out.

In negotiation speak, it is knowing your BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If you don't know your BATNA, your negotiation could be screwed.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

My last lawyer/ski bud used to say his job was to organize the affairs of people who had somehow failed to do it themselves

get advice from a lawyer

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Originally Posted by Danno

this is good advice. You don't need to involve lawyers, just do a consult with one so that you know where you stand legally. So that you can talk to her from a position of knowledge, and understand what the courts might say if you two can't work it out.

In negotiation speak, it is knowing your BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If you don't know your BATNA, your negotiation could be screwed.

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I agree with both of these. Getting a lawyer involved in the actual negotiations should be reserved until it becomes apparent that you and your ex aren't going to be able to resolve this on your own, but you'll be in a better position to negotiate after having reviewed your current agreement with an attorney.

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Originally Posted by powdork

thanks. i hadn't considered that as a possibility.

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hence the need for a legal consultation. Kids are too important not to do it right. The question you should be asking here is "who knows a good family lawyer in California?" once she gets to FL you could be screwed if things change.

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

Even if you and ex can reah an understanding, you need legal advice. The last thing you want us for her to go to court in Fl and get some order that is contrary to your interests. The rights and responsibilities need to be wrapped up here, which I assume is where the divorce took place, before she moves.

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x100000

Florida's family court system is fucked, like seriously crazy and very pro mom. Get your shit all tied up before she goes.

I'm no lawyer but it seems kinda fuct that one partner in a 50-50 joint custody agreement could move the kids across country without the other partner's consent. Go for a consult with a family law attorney and find out if that is even a possibility. If it is, then you have some more serious thinking to do. If not, tell her she's welcome to move anywhere she wants but that she'll need to either give you full physical custody + support or wait until the youngest turns 18.

Agreed about getting a lawyer. Maybe the 2 of you can hash out the visitation/custody issues beforehand, and then memorialize it in a custody modification. Definitely try to maintain jurisdiction of all matters in CA, if she wants to move, make her fly back to CA if there's an issue in the future. That could dissuade her from pulling any stunts once she moves. Yer already on the hook for flights to FL. Legally, you could be on the hook for at least partial tuition, but the internetz are no place to make that determination. Lotsa variables come into play for that.

This might be helpful
http://www.justanswer.com/family-law...ove-place.html

Does that mean the kids spend like every other night with you and the rest with her? It sounds like the family lawyer will be wondering if you qualify for a footnote 12 exception to the Burgess decision. IF so, the court can require mediation of a new agreement concerning custody. Otherwise, if she is the custodial parent she can move to FL, as long as she's not moving just to take the kids away. I'm no lawyer so this is worth the same as any internet post...

Not much to contribute except that Lawyer up sounds right. The courts don't care until she leaves but by then its too late. (I would like the follow up soon out of curiosity.)

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Originally Posted by skinnyskier

Does that mean the kids spend like every other night with you and the rest with her? It sounds like the family lawyer will be wondering if you qualify for a footnote 12 exception to the Burgess decision. IF so, the court can require mediation of a new agreement concerning custody. Otherwise, if she is the custodial parent she can move to FL, as long as she's not moving just to take the kids away. I'm no lawyer so this is worth the same as any internet post...

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we had joint custody with 3.5 days at each house each week. i would have to check but i think i may be some sort of 'custodial parent' which i think arose from me getting them their insurance.

Having grown up @ Tahoe and having a Sister in South Florida I can say with conviction that moving your kids to Florida is not the best for them.

School Is better here. Climat is better here. Saftey is much better here.

And taking a kid who has been raised in a dry Mountain environment and dropping them into HOT HUMMID South Florida will add a whole other level of misery.

Just say NO

The X needs to make her life work here. Untill the kids are ready to go it on thier own.