Sea Kayak recommendation

Hey guys,

I am thinking about dropping in on the whole sea kayak thing and I know nothing about them.... never gone before, but I am sure I will be stoked on it so I want something that is good, solid fun, and will give me room to progress and grow. There is a bunch of my local friends all buying boats this year so I will have plenty of people to paddle with and plenty of excuses to use it.

Basically it will be used any time this summer that I am not riding my bike, and could be used for just a few hours in the afternoon / moring to the occasional short overnight. I would want to have room for camera gear tho.

I live in Bellingham, so I am very close to paddling in the San Juan Is. and Lake Whatcom is 2 minutes from my house....so thats the main areas I would be exploring.

Go with a 14+ footer if you're looking to do more than a couple miles at a time, especially with camera gear. A rudder kit will definitely help if you're not a seasoned paddler (or trying to keep the boat straight while taking photos).
If you're looking to do mostly touring/overnighters/photoshoots from it, then go with one that's a little wider, has less rocker and more gear carrying capacity.
If you're looking to surf a few green waves or light surf and/or have it as somewhat of a fitness boat, then look for something with ample carrying capacity, but with a little more rocker and narrower.
Composite/fiberglass/kevlar/Airalite type boats will have a stiffer hull, which will make them faster and smoother in the water than an HDPE plastic boat. It'll also make them twice as expensive and a lot more fragile than a plastic boat.

Wilderness Systems boats are good gear carriers (Tsunami's, Tempests). Perception makes good performance boats as well as tourers (Eclipse, Essence, Carolina). Dagger has a sweet looking new boat out this year called the Alchemy. The Heritage Pisgah is a nice tourer for the price. Venture makes some pretty sweet boats as well. There's a ton of other companies out there, but these are what I have experience with.

Demo if you can.

As Ive rediscovered recently, the world of ocean kayaks is pretty intense.

The best way to find out what you want is to just go out and rent/demo as many boats as you can. Boats can vary in a lot of subtle ways that completely change the feel of a boat. General size of the boat (length and volume) has a great impact on its buoyancy and feel off the bat. A lower volume boat (depending on your size) may feel solid at first, but if you plan on doing longer trips where you need to pack the boat it may be too low-and hence slow-once its capped. Similarly a large boat may feel too big at first, but if its a touring boat it will feel solid with a bit of weight. You can get used to any boat, its all about your comfort and feel in the boat.
Moving on, depending on your level of commitment and progress the type of hull you get affects how you paddle the boat. Depending on your wants, needs and preferences you may want something with really good primary stability(boat flat in the water-great for those camera moments) or if your progressing something with solid secondary stability(on "edge") may be what your looking for. In the world of hulls as well you have different shapes. Multi-chined, shallow V and all that will directly affect the feel of the boat. Then you get the amount of rocker that the hull has as it progresses from flat to more on edge. All making significant differences as to how fast the boat turns and maneuvers as well as tracks.
Moving from the hull youve got general outfitting. There are two standard types: Skeg's and rudder's.
Rudders are... well... rudders. Drop down style with pedals in the cockpit which you control.
A skeg is just a fin that drops down at the stern of the boat which helps the boat track staighter.
Choice is personal preference.

Another thing to think about is materials.
Plastics are cheaper and if your going to beat on the boat are usually the way to go. They will take a lot of abuse, but they arent as light and cant really be repaired once theres a puncture.
Composite boats(fiberglass, carbon, kevlar) are the opposite. Theyre quite light and are damn strong boats that will take a beating. The great benefit of these is that if you puncture the boat you can easily repair it.

There a few things to think about.
Id suggest hopping on some sort of clinic around town, getting all basic knowledge and starting from there.
Dont buy a boat without demoing it. Something may look good on paper or in person, but until youve paddled it for a bit of time you wont really know what its like.

Ive tried many in the last little while.
Ones that have blown me away include:
P&H Capella 163
P&H Scorpio
P&H Cetus
Seaward Quantum
(yes, I dig skeg boats)

Stop in the ski shop in Glacier, Jon and Drew own the kayak shop over here, I'm sure they'll have something in the barn for you.

Like previous posters have mentioned, composite/fiberglass/kevlar are expensive ~ probably iro double the price of plastic kayaks (kevlar = $$$$$). However they are faster and look nicer than plastic boats. I decided against composite/glass because they wont take the beating a plastic kayak will, all my friends with glass boats are really precious with them, and cry when they break them. If you like rock hopping or you come back from a trip tired and drop one end whilst putting it on the car roof, a composite boat wont forgive the mistake, they can be easily holed. Holes in plastic boats can be welded, but it isn't a cheap repair.

I wouldn't bother with a rudder, they are a pain, windage is a nuisance with them. Concentrate on good paddling and turning technique. Skegs are very useful.

A general rule: a rounded hull and wider at the cockpit = more stable. A hard chined hull will be a faster kayak but it will feel tippy (poor primary stability, ok secondary stability). Again another generalisation: the longer the kayak the faster it will be, shorter kayaks will turn more easily.

Like the Prof says the P&H kayaks are good. I've tried them and would add:
The Capella is really nice, big and stable, not super fast. The Cetus is a gem of a boat, it is fast and turns quickly, it is tippier so maybe not the best for a beginner. It also has an extra day hatch if I remember right, which is a welcome addition.

P&H boats are well made and outfitted, the seats are pretty comfy (2" too high though). We bust a skeg control cable on a trip and I would say their current system is a absolute bitch to repair.

I was looking at Point 65 boats (particularly the sea cruiser), they are a Scandinavian company, unfortunately they shifted their production from eastern Europe to China. The construction and finish standard was shit, I don't know if they have fixed this problem. Do look over every inch of the kayak you go for and demo it in a range of conditions if you can.

I've paddled the Valley Nordkapp and Aquanaut range and found them to be well made and fast boats, built to traditional sea kayak designs. Maybe not your thing if stability is important.

I demo'd the Tiderace Xcite and Xplore. They are expensive 'glass/kevlar kayaks. The Xcite is quick turning and fast. The Xplore is a lean, fast expedition kayak. Built and finished to a high standard. I tried the NDK Greenlander and found it too hard chined for me. The NDK Romany was more fun though, playful and more maneuverable.

I'm more into stability than speed. I like to go fast but I also fish and pull up creels from my boat and need a stable platform. When out with people in fast boats, I paddle harder and don't have problems keeping up.

I am now looking to demo the Necky Chatham 17 or 18 and the Venture Easky 17

Some useful stuff here:
http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/almanac.htm

Some US and UK books that imo are up to date and excellent:
Sea Kayaker Deep Trouble, M. Broze & G. Gronseth
Sea Kayak Navigation, F. Ferrero
Sea Kayak, G. Brown
Sea Kayaking Safety & Rescue, J. Lull

I got the necky elaho HV in plastic ,I think its 17+ ft or so ,speed is a product of length so go long forget the shorter rec boats IMO unless you are too small to handle a real seakayak .I went plastic cuz altho I paddled WW for many years I was unsure as to what I wanted or why so I didnt wana spend a bunch on composite ,doing much if any testing was not going to happen so I just asked the shop whats a good boat,what would you pick that is fast & seaworthy ... the elaho

plastic is cheaper & tougher BUT its heavy ,getting a 17ft plastic boat off the roof single handed can be a struggle so consider that .

I like rudders but hardly ever use them ,mostly just turn the boat by leaning it but when when there is weather I need a rudder and I want a rudder

consider looking for a boat in vancover all the dealers are on line if you just google the model you want ,I seen lots of used boats last year when I was looking ,I don't know what the importation of a boat would be like but think about it

whatever you buy be sure to outift it with hip pads & adj knee braces it makes a big difference

yea the elaho is a good boat. also keep in mind they are weight dependent, some boats are better for different size people. some like the elaho come in different volume sizes.

definitely go 16' or longer it will be nicer for touring since you will carry more speed and have more room for crap i it.

i am a big fan of the Necky Looksha boats. the looksha iv is a classic if you can find it used, i haven't paddled the newer ones though.

i would stay away from current designs. they are nice to paddle, but you really have to baby them.

as far as rudder vs skeg. its a personal pref. i like the rudder but its easy to not use. but when you want to use it, its good.

also think about if you are planning on doing any overnighters. since some boats are better for that as well.

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Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

Another thing to think about is materials.
Plastics are cheaper and if your going to beat on the boat are usually the way to go. They will take a lot of abuse, but they arent as light and cant really be repaired once theres a puncture.
Composite boats(fiberglass, carbon, kevlar) are the opposite. Theyre quite light and are damn strong boats that will take a beating. The great benefit of these is that if you puncture the boat you can easily repair it.

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The only HDPE used in kayaks that you can't repair is Cross-link (like in the old Riot WW boats). Fixing plastic boats is WAY easier than composite boats, and they are *considerably* more durable. Try dropping a composite boat accidentally. Try a hard landing on a rocky beach with a composite boat.

edit: Just head up to Johnson Outdoors in Ferndale (right next to Kona), and rent any of the Necky sea kayak line you want. Pretty reasonably priced, and you can find one that you can put an outboard on, because you're lazy as fuck Gunder.

Demo demo demo demo demo!

I would also recommend plastic for cheapo/durability factor. Fiberglass is great if you're totally anal about your gear, which you're not... ;)

But take it from a (former) sea kayak nut: if you want to dork around on the water, nothing beats a little sailing dinghy.

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Originally Posted by hop

Demo demo demo demo demo!

I would also recommend plastic for cheapo/durability factor. Fiberglass is great if you're totally anal about your gear, which you're not... ;)

But take it from a (former) sea kayak nut: if you want to dork around on the water, nothing beats a little sailing dinghy.

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Only if he can borrow your sailors cap.

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Originally Posted by BakerBoy

The only HDPE used in kayaks that you can't repair is Cross-link (like in the old Riot WW boats). Fixing plastic boats is WAY easier than composite boats, and they are *considerably* more durable. Try dropping a composite boat accidentally. Try a hard landing on a rocky beach with a composite boat.

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I agree on the cheapness and durability factors, but with a true puncture(Im talking like a hole at least about an inch across) its usually cheaper and easier to fix a composite rather than a plastic. Im not saying you cant repair a plastic puncture, but the repair isnt as solid,can be on the pricier side of a repair, and isnt in the same category of repair as with composite where you can sand and finish it so its like nothing ever happened.
Dont get me wrong, I aint hating on plastic and for Gunder I think its the way to go.
I also do a fair amount of WW and of course Ive thoroughly tested out the plastic side of boats.
And as far as composite durability goes, our rental fleet is full of them and I have seen people bash on them(as they tend to do with rentals) and we havent seen a scratch as of yet.

Anyway, no need for this nonsense. As I and others have mentioned Gunder: rent and demo.

i would agree about composite repair. we had some of our doubles get into a car accident and they were able to be repaired pretty easily. at least the one that didnt go through a windshield. though to be fair, the plastic boats were fine

Thanks guys.

I am leaning towards fiberglass for sure.

and fwiw.... I am pretty sure I could fix either a plastic or fiberglass boat easily, or at least i hope I could after 7 years of plastics / composites engineering school.

^^^

Good call, 'glass boats are fast, light and look good. I'd have one if I wouldn't break it :redface:

Between you and WC... shit... what's this world coming to?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gunder

Thanks guys.

I am leaning towards fiberglass for sure.

and fwiw.... I am pretty sure I could fix either a plastic or fiberglass boat easily, or at least i hope I could after 7 years of plastics / composites engineering school.

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Checkout Vancover because it could be a big source of used boats ,last year I seen slightly used fibreglass boats in great shape for 800-1000 bucks off list ,knock off another 20% for exchange and it could work out but I don't know what the duty might be

My boat had been sitting on a rack for a couple of years and was just like new

Make your own. This is mine but it's in MI.