newbie

I was getting way too tired of going through skiing withdrawl symptomes in the summer, and since i've taken on two jobs this summer I can finally afford to get into something else. I chose whitewater kayaking. I've been out a few times on the kananaskis river, and already i'm abolutely hooked. I'm going out again on wednesday, and i've got a wavesport fuse 48 on demo. definitely very stoked. lets just hope i dont flip over since i'm not at all comfortable with rolls yet. eh whatever, gotta learn somehow.

just thought i'd share.

Welcome to the sport. Be ready to shit down your leg with fear on a regular basis.
The BIGGEST thing I can tell you is to work on your roll again and again and again. BOMBPROOF it. Nothing will make you a better boater quicker.

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Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Welcome to the sport. Be ready to shit down your leg with fear on a regular basis.
The BIGGEST thing I can tell you is to work on your roll again and again and again. BOMBPROOF it. Nothing will make you a better boater quicker.

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Thanks. I'm actually quite excited at the idea of shitting myself on a regular basis. It's been a REALLY long time since I've had the opportunity to start something new up from scratch and know that I'll have a lot of opportunity to build on it. I started skiing when I was 4, and even though there will always be room for improvement in every aspect of it, I haven't had that "I have absolutely no idea what I'm getting myself into feeling" for a LONG time. feels damn good.

The roll is actually a bit of a concern for me; none of my friends are into it (at least, not within a 10 hour radius of me) so it's a bit hard to go out and screw around with it, i'm not all that big on the idea of having to bail out every time I can't roll back up, which happens a lot. I just joined a local paddling club though, so i'm hoping that there'll be a few people there willing to give me a hand up while I flail about.

The best thing is just get on the river and you will meet people. Boaters are really cool people. Watch vids/read to learn the mechanics of a roll, and then get in a swimming pool somewhere with a buddy (to right you up when you miss your roll, don't choose Summit, he's worthless and you'll swim ;) ) and giv'er.
Good luck.

i kinda disagree. some of the best boaters I know, guys who have been kayaking for 20 years, paddled first descents all over the world were telling me the other day that the couldn't roll for the first couple years of their kayaking career. things were different back then, there wasn't any study of how to roll, it was basically something they figured out over a long enough period of time. Instead of rolling they had to learn how to brace, often and effectivley, this foundation still shows in their boating today. When they taught me to kayak, the stressed the same. Brace before roll, and i think its a great philosophy. I'm not saying not to bother with getting a bomber roll, I just don't think it is as an important skill to learn right of the bat as some people think. Rather that spending all you spare time in the pool. I think it's critical when your learning to boat to spend the majority of you time in the river.

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Originally Posted by *alli*

I'm actually quite excited at the idea of shitting myself on a regular basis.

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Prime signature material here...

Oh, hi, *alli*

lots of paddlers in cow-town,aqabatics is a great place to hook up and the kan is a great place to learn and I am pretty sure I remember they had pit tiolets there .

Even if you don't get yer roll and many people don't in the 1st year they got pool sesh at sait during the off season

And I assume Alli is a womans name ,they used to have a womens night during the week some

have fun

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Originally Posted by eirikainersharp

i kinda disagree. some of the best boaters I know, guys who have been kayaking for 20 years, paddled first descents all over the world were telling me the other day that the couldn't roll for the first couple years of their kayaking career. things were different back then, there wasn't any study of how to roll, it was basically something they figured out over a long enough period of time. Instead of rolling they had to learn how to brace, often and effectivley, this foundation still shows in their boating today. When they taught me to kayak, the stressed the same. Brace before roll, and i think its a great philosophy. I'm not saying not to bother with getting a bomber roll, I just don't think it is as an important skill to learn right of the bat as some people think. Rather that spending all you spare time in the pool. I think it's critical when your learning to boat to spend the majority of you time in the river.

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And i kinda disagree here, although you're spot on that a good brace will avoid a lot of rolls. [when i learned 20 years ago there actually was a fair amount of info out there on the roll, and one of the best kayaking books ever, by William not Bill Nealy was published in 1986 http://www.amazon.com/Kayak-Animated...ref=pd_sim_b_2]

If you do learn a bomber roll first, i think it will also give you a lot of feel for bracing as well. A good roll not only gives you more confidence to try moves that are a little over your head, but swimming just sucks and once you get to above Class III it can hurt ya. Imho hit the pool, or even better a lake. Water is cold in a lake [especially in canadia!] but it is in the river too, and the quicker you feel comfortable being upside down in cold water and thinking clearly the better off you'll be.

Good luck and have fun with it!!! :D

well in a race where 1 wrongly placed stroke will lose you the race, if you hav to roll you would have lost the race anyhow so european slalom coaches were not big on the roll is the story I hear but I know guys who been paddling for 30+ years and didnt have a roll for the 1st 10

but swimming does suck ,hit the flat water by yourself and get yer roll down

I think the old baots were way easier to roll ,trying to roll a modern play boat is like trying to turn over a dock

i thought that 'roll is not important' comment would stir the pot a bit. regardless the important thing is that you get out there as often as you can. every day if possible. the canabeze isn't that far from calgary good for an after work paddle session.

well few people have a good roll right off the bat so the 1st season of paddling is usually the swimming season ,the spring high water/cold weather is over and there will be lots of good swimming on the Kan ,the kan is a great place to learn the basics if you can find someone to teach you

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately I don't have too much free time this summer but I'm going to be getting out at least twice a week. Luckily cold water doesn't bother me much at all so I'm not too worried about that, one of the plus sides of growing up with only mountain lakes and galcier fed rivers to swim in. The problem that i've been having with the roll is that when i did a quick introductory course, i managed to get a couple of c-to-c rolls. then when someone else was teaching me, it was a sweep roll and the two methods got mixed up in my head into a useless flailing motion. but I figure i'll just screw around on the kan until I've got enough practice to get really comfortable with a roll, then i can send myself down some more challenging rivers. worst comes to worst, i actually go to sait to getting out to the pool sesh's after classes definitely won't be hard. and yeah, aquabatics is where i've been buying the stuff and taking boats out to demo. definitely a great shop.

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Originally Posted by steved

1) Outfit your boat so that you wear it, but can bail("wet exit") cleanly!


2) stay loose in the hips = start on flat or very easy water. Working on your strokes for a few days on flatwater will let you focus on the basics without worrying about the current, obstacles...etc.

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That is to say roll with the water, don't tense up, not outfit your boat loose in the hips.

as far as rolls go, you don't have to do a roll a certain way, find what works for you and go with that. My roll is not a traditional type roll. I learned to roll a sea kayak first so i started with a sweep, but with ww boats, if i do a full sweep i get turned around a bunch, so its somehow formed into a sweep to c roll

This isn't 20 years ago.

Learn to bomb proof your roll. This will make you more comfortable on the water and keep you in your boat. The more time you have in your boat, the more you can work on skills like bracing. You cannot improve your river-running skills if you are out of your boat in every rapid.

A sweep is a really a sped-up c-c. Just focus on 3 things: 1) Keep your paddle on the surface of the water no matter what kind of roll you are doing 2) Hip-snap, head down 3) Take your time! In class II-III- there isn't much that is likely to hurt you (obviously use your judgement here, if it is super shallow or there is wood, etc then disregard this). Therefore, take your time and think about what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by *alli*

Unfortunately I don't have too much free time this summer but I'm going to be getting out at least twice a week.

then when someone else was teaching me, it was a sweep roll and the two methods got mixed up in my head into a useless flailing motion.

aquabatics is where i've been buying the stuff and taking boats out to demo. definitely a great shop.

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IMO once a week and you keep whatever skills you have ,twice a week is enough to get better ...still some guys can jump in a boat once a year and make it look easy

if you had the roll once thats great sign ... you WILL sort it out

aquabatics is good ,I have worked there,good place to tap into the local scene

edit: as for the roll ,I think the old round hulls were where most people started with the sweep and it was fine cuz cuz that round shape rolls like a log .

I find the flat hull with chines/wierd upper decks shapes require a BIG initial effort (pull up with one knee and push with the other foot ) to get things going ...if I do a sweep I kinda run out of sweep

thsi is a good book with good pictures

http://www.amazon.com/Bombproof-Roll.../dp/0897320859

Lots of good advice here. A good brace will serve you well but newbs tend to forget about that when they feel themselves going over. Learning to roll in gentle current or a lake is better than a rec center pool, for sure. As someone else said, think it through and take your time when practicing - you'll get faster and faster but don't sweat it if it doesn't come naturally. I struggled more than anyone I knew when I started and still can't roll for shit when it really counts but I'm getting better and I love being on the river.

Blurred is right - river people are generally cool. Well, cooler than skiers, anyway.

rolling in a canoe is hard as shit

Putting in a sloped addition(paddler-side) to bulkheads and filling extra spaces seems to help.. That's where a shorter boat helps me(@170)... You can add a rim..then the skirt onto Esquif's Taureau and you're good to go....

$.01

Haha...I just jumped into a hard boat (a redline) for the first time ever this past weekend. We decided to do the Weber. I flipped in the first rock garden past Henefer and lost my paddle. Thankfully, some nice river folk returned it the next day after we posted a missing message on Yahoo's Utah Paddlers board.

At any rate...I definitely won't be getting back onto the river in that thing until I have my roll (and other skills) completely nailed down in flat water. Still, I can't wait though, as this is definitely more challenging than rafting or duckying.

its fun geting your pool roll and then watching it disapear in the river when it counts. i have a bomber pool roll on both sides used to have a combat roll but lately its been gone, can't roll for shit. typically get one feeble attempt at a roll before i bail.

i will agree that a bomber roll will helpl wit confidence. its a lot easier to get yourself to try harder stuff if you know you will have no problem getting back up

i just picked up a new paddle , a bent shaft so i need to relearn how to roll with that, so hoping it will help on the river

I lost my roll when i was not paddling much during the early family& having kids years and that was 8 years into my paddling career ...you can still lose it at any time

It comes back ,just keep practising

yea, its totally a head thing too. i would be more ok with it, if i couldn't roll in the pool as well, but its only on the river. its hard to know what to practice

I paddled for 3 years before I pulled off my first combat roll...swimming every time you tip over is the best motivation for learning to roll, cuz swimming sucks!

ff