More Than 1,000 in Iraq’s Forces Quit Basra Fight

Great news. Just great.


April 4, 2008
More Than 1,000 in Iraq’s Forces Quit Basra Fight

By STEPHEN FARRELL and JAMES GLANZ
BAGHDAD — More than 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and policemen either refused to fight or simply abandoned their posts during the inconclusive assault against Shiite militias in Basra last week, a senior Iraqi government official said Thursday. Iraqi military officials said the group included dozens of officers, including at least two senior field commanders in the battle.

The desertions in the heat of a major battle cast fresh doubt on the effectiveness of the American-trained Iraqi security forces. The White House has conditioned further withdrawals of American troops on the readiness of the Iraqi military and police.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/wo...hp&oref=slogin

Bring our Boys (and Girls) home!

Read this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/071814994...sl_1ghhi1ih4_b

It's no great work of literature (written by a squadie) but is a totally compelling description of massive infantry battles by someone in the middle of it. I'm not into the whole big balled, loads of guns n bullets, killer warrior stuff but it is a fascinating and intelligent look at the conflict.

Interesting stuff in there about the Iraqi security forces too. As well as fighting a load, this fellow helped with their arming and training - all the weapons they gave them were UN blue. Imagine the frustration of the coalition soldiers: within hours of issuing the police with these very distinctive looking weapons they were being used by rebels to attack the coalition bases.

That Basra incident did nothing but further demonstrate Maliki's uselessness, and gave al Sadr a big boost. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080404/...q_intelligence

maybe instead of trying to turn this into "Tet", from a media standpoint, we should just let these guys do their jobs.

I think they wish they knew what the goal of their job is.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Great news. Just great.


April 4, 2008
More Than 1,000 in Iraq’s Forces Quit Basra Fight

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If they don't want to try then we should just leave already. And it should be done before the next election. That way who ever becomes the next president will have the option of going back or staying out.

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Originally Posted by Tuckerman

If they don't want to try then we should just leave already. And it should be done before the next election. That way who ever becomes the next president will have the option of going back or staying out.

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Man, you haven't learned anything about that village idiot in almost eight years. He and his supporters at Fox will be advocating for us to stay put 5-10 years from now.

Dude fuck them. Lets pull out and let them kill each other. When Al Qaeda gets big enough to establish training camps there then lets go in with bombs and blow everything up, then pull out, then let them kill each other, then bomb, then pull out, ect, ect , ect. Repeat as many times as needed. I got no problem doing that shit for 80 years as long as it's contained to over there, but fuck spending our treasure and blood if these fuckers won't even do it themselves. We tried, but there's only so much we can do. If they don't want to take advantage of an opportunity to have freedom and democracy for the first time ever then fuck them, they don't deserve it. Pull out and let them slaughter each other like the animals they are.

“Trying to eliminate Saddam…would have incurred incalculable
human and political costs. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. There was no viable ‘exit strategy’ we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the UN’s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, (we) could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land.”

"I firmly believe that we should not march into Baghdad. To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero. Assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war." George Bush Snr, A World Transformed, 1998

Should a listened to Dad & not the neo cons,

However Basra could be cleaned out by a battle group of Paras & Gurkas with fixed bayonets & the press away out of it, no politics or restricting rules of engagement. cold sheffield steel, 'they don't like it up em' always used to work, level the dump (cpl Jack Jones :yourock:: http://www.phill.co.uk/comedy/dadsarmy/char.html), Or do it by proxy and let Kurds sort it.

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Originally Posted by AlpineJunkie

Dude fuck them. Lets pull out and let them kill each other. When Al Qaeda gets big enough to establish training camps there then lets go in with bombs and blow everything up, then pull out, then let them kill each other, then bomb, then pull out, ect, ect , ect. Repeat as many times as needed. I got no problem doing that shit for 80 years as long as it's contained to over there, but fuck spending our treasure and blood if these fuckers won't even do it themselves. We tried, but there's only so much we can do. If they don't want to take advantage of an opportunity to have freedom and democracy for the first time ever then fuck them, they don't deserve it. Pull out and let them slaughter each other like the animals they are.

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Dear A******J, you went in illegally and destroyed their infrastructure, looted the great museums (both Americans and Iraqis, not just Americans), killed thousands or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, killed 4,000+ US soldiers and how many workers and mercenaries, maimed...what is it now 25,000 US soldiers?, fucked their financial system, destroyed thousands of houses, schools, libraries...and you, untouched by all of it, sits in front of the computer his parents bought you and proclaim "I got no problem doing that shit for 80 years".

Grow up and let go of your misplaced cowboy fantasies. Or just go back to Libya.

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Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080404/...q_intelligence

maybe instead of trying to turn this into "Tet", from a media standpoint, we should just let these guys do their jobs.

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Oh yeah, this is something else. Somehow the neocons have convinced a lot of people that the NYTimes and CBS lost the war for us in Vietnam. I've been hearing this over the last year or so, and, I'm stunned. I guess certain parties are preparing for the future when they can blame The Times and CNN for forcing our pull out, instead of focusing on the horrible decision of going in in the first place, just like 'Nam. I guess you can call it the anti Michael Moore propaganda push. And who's still alive to dispute it? Fucking major league bullshit.

You're an idiot. And you should be strapped to the front of a Humvee and driven through downtown Basra, shouting to the locals how the liberal media is the cause of their miserable lives.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

You're an idiot. And you should be strapped to the front of a Humvee and driven through downtown Basra, shouting to the locals how the liberal media is the cause of their miserable lives.

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Great line.

The whole "we lost Vietnam because of the politics" spin has been very, very successful. People, however, have such full lives watching American Idol these days, that they can't be bothered to actually read some history. Do you expect that to change?

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Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

Dear A******J, you went in illegally and destroyed their infrastructure, looted the great museums (both Americans and Iraqis, not just Americans), killed thousands or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, killed 4,000+ US soldiers and how many workers and mercenaries, maimed...what is it now 25,000 US soldiers?, fucked their financial system, destroyed thousands of houses, schools, libraries...and you, untouched by all of it, sits in front of the computer his parents bought you and proclaim "I got no problem doing that shit for 80 years".

Grow up and let go of your misplaced cowboy fantasies. Or just go back to Libya.

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I PERSONALLY went into Iraq??? You got video of this or something?

Illegally? What, is the world ruled by some police force and laws I'm not aware of? I'm not exactly sure what magical laws there are that are suppose to magically stop a half trillion dollar military. There are no laws when it comes to an aircraft carrier.

Yeah dude I propose murdering several hundred thousand Iraqis every year for 80 years :rolleyes:. Jesus how many people do you think live there? It's not China for christs sake. I see you like to use the same logic you like to use against McCain. I suppose we are still mowing down Nazis 60 years later in Germany since we still have troops there today uh?

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Originally Posted by Sparky

turning the whole Arab world against us

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Didn't happen.

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and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero.

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Didn't happen.

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Assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator

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Didn't happen.

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and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war."

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Didn't happen.

Thanks for posting that. It's always instructive to see how much things can change in a decade.

I thought President Bush said things were going very well in Iraq. That we are on track and making solid progress.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

Didn't happen.

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Fair enough but much of this has more than a grain of truth to it:

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Originally Posted by Sparky

“
Trying to eliminate Saddam…would have incurred incalculable human and political costs.

We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq.

There was no viable ‘exit strategy’ we could see, violating another of our principles.

Furthermore, we had been consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the UN’s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish.

occupying power in a bitterly hostile land.”

To occupy Iraq would shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us (err ok much of the Arab world). condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war."

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We were duped into spilling our sons blood in a war over oil

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Originally Posted by Sparky

We were duped into spilling our sons blood in a war over oil

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I don't see the oil connection?

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Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I don't see the oil connection?

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Iraq has the largest oil reserves in the world. Plenty of two-bit asshole dictators run countries somewhere in the world, but if they're not sitting on an enormous pile of fossil-fuel, we tend to not give a shit.

But never mind, nothing to see here. We're there because Saddam bought the plane tickets....er......had massive piles of WMD......er........fighting them there, so we don't have to here :rolleyes2......er........"protecting freedom" or "protecting the profit margin of defense contractors" or "deciding what form of gov't is best for people that live 10000 miles away, and don't really want our input on the matter anyway"

You know after reading the article that 1,000 was only less then %4 of the force which means over %96 stayed to fight. I think this is actually pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I don't see the oil connection?

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Seriously? OK, not exactly pinko leftie references

A few to whet your appetite:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/4354269.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2461214.ece

http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/iraq.asp (a little leftie)

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle8582.htm ( " )

And if you don't buy the securing oil resources argument:rolleyes2, then it must be hard to deny the false intelligence, WMD? :rolleyes2 pre invasion AlQ' Islamic terror connections to Iraq? :rolleyes2 But this has all been covered here. It's a bunch of blah. We was sold a lie.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

We were duped into spilling our sons blood in a war over oil

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Why isn't the US taking said oil then??

...and every single one of the soldiers I've talked to wanted to go over there. When will dipshits such as yourself realise that US troops aren't brain-dead morons who are forced to fight?




Ha - I just got a fotune cookie: "others are attracted to your indearing warmth".

More profits come later, many are profiting now from this war, secure the resources & more $$ will come.

I never assumed/thought/or stated that US or UK troops were brain-dead or forced. I served (volunteered), I have family & good mates who were there and some there now (volunteered), soldiers do their jobs, many enjoy it more than wider society could imagine.

Sympathy: find it in the dictionary between shit and syphilis, ya ring dhobi walah