Home Theater mags: center channel question

I've got a mismatched set of speakers, which I know isn't the best but I already had a sweet stereo pair of Vandersteens (8" drivers) that I didn't want to give up. So, a few years ago, I got a Paradigm cc-170 center channel (5.5" drivers) and a couple of little Klipsch surrounds. The surrounds are fine, but the dialogue in movies just gets lost in the center channel. Seems stupid how, with these lovely stereo speakers just sitting there, almost all of the audio in movies is coming out the little center channel.

Now, one of the drivers in the Paradigm is buzzing. I thought, great, here's a chance to get something better matched with the Vandersteens. Thing is, center channels with 8" drivers just don't seem to exist, at least not in the sub-$2000 price range (for reference, the Paradigm cost me $199). I did some side-by-side comparisons with other similar-sized centers, and the Paradigm seemed to compare pretty well with them.

So, anyone know of any center channel options that aren't crazy expensive and might be a better match for some bigger stereo speakers?

www.av123.com

I have a x-series 7.1 setup in my house. They make some damn fine gear, and they'll have something that will work for you.

That said, if the speech is lost on the center channel, it sounds like you have some balance issues or dead spots you need to work out.

Center channel speakers need to have good midrange for strong clear voice. Having a large (8") driver won't help allot. I am not familiar with your current speakers. I like the new B&W 600 Series speakers but every room and set of ears are different!

Many specialist audio stores will let you take in your current speakers to the store or maybe even let you take a loaner speaker home so that you can try the new speaker at home with your current setup.

Good luck!

Like others said, the centre speaker doesn't need a big speaker. A good shop can fix you Paradigm and most receivers can adjust the gain for each speaker so turn down the centre until you like it. Or turn up the front left and right.

Those av123's look very interesting... might order one and take advantage of the 30-day tryout period, see if it's an improvement.

I've now heard from many - not just here - that the size of the center doesn't matter, because it's all midrange for dialogue. But my experience is that a lot of DVDs are mastered so that almost everything - effects, music, and dialogue - is 90% in the center; hence, a full-range center seems like a good idea.

Snow Dog, I've tried boosting the gain of the center - it makes it a little better, but it still sounds like what it is: a small speaker with the gain boosted. What would be neat is if there was an algorithm that would spread the center channel signal into the L and R as well (while also preserving the L and R signals). My Denon, however, doesn't do that.

Shouldn't you be turning DOWN the gain on the centre channel? If you're getting too much centre then the centre gain goes down or the left and right gains go up.

You may also have speaker placement issues or your receiver is in NIGHT mode (more centre, less dynamic range all around). Or you've gotten fixated on the centre speaker. My HK generates pink noise so I can step around the speakers and adjust the gain on each and there are DVDs (like Digital Video Essentials) that provide audio test patterns. Ideally the centre should be as close to the display as possible which usually means small drivers.

I don't know how Denon sets up the speakers but my HK has size settings for each speaker which determines how the sound is spread around. There's also delays for each speaker so I can effectively move the speaker forward or back.

My speakers are all mismatched too; my L&R are 30 year old B&W speakers (3-way, 8" woofer) and the rest are sale speakers.

I'm not doing a very good job of describing the problem. In a nutshell (1) most dvd's (or the algorithm in my receiver) seem to put almost everything into the center channel, and (2) my center channel sounds small/weak compared to my L and R speakers. So, when there's lots of effects or music which is routed into the L and R, the dialogue in the center gets lost; other times, things just sound small.

But I think, as always, the maggot collective has given me good food for thought. I'll play with the pink noise generator and speaker balance/placement, and I might order that av123 center as an in-home comparison (hoping that it's super sweet and will solve all my problems; they seem like a cool company that I'd like to support).

Thanks mangs.

Originally I put my centre speaker on the floor under the TV which gave me weak dialog because the coffee table was blocking the sound. When I moved it higher and in plain sight it was much better.

Check out Phase Technology. I've got a 5.1 setup from them. They're little know, but a super sweet speaker. Excellent dynamics and they invented the soft dome tweeter, so the highs are super smooth.

http://www.phasetech.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

www.av123.com

I have a x-series 7.1 setup in my house. They make some damn fine gear, and they'll have something that will work for you.

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I have x-sls at home on a 2 channel system. For the money, they're easily the best speaker I know of.

Just ordered an X-CS center channel ($150, including tax!); driving to Longmont to pick it up tomorrow. I'll report back. Can't wait to check it out.

Nice - they're great guys up there. Have them show you around the office area... some ridiculous speakers in there.

Update: got the X-CS installed last night (the old version, not the new encore version which is more expensive and supposedly not that much different), and it's a HUDGE improvement. Watched Fellowship of the Ring (best-mastered DVD movie out there, IMHO) and it was perfect - the music and effects were shaking the house, but I could still hear the dialogue perfectly and it didn't sound small or boxy. Beautiful!

Only problem is, the X-CS is about 3X as big and 5X as heavy as my old speaker, so it won't fit on top of the TV anymore. I'll figure that out, though. Very happy - thanks for the wisdom, all!