Shovel size/etc

Not sure if this is slide zone or tech talk, but:

I bought my first set of avi gear when I was a poor student, all pretty cheap stuff which I now want to replace (analog transceiver, lexan shovel, dodgy looking probe...you get the idea)

I'm thinking BD Guide probe and BCA tracker, but was wondering about shovels. My local ski shop (I live in London, pickings are slim) only sells the BD Deploy 3 and BD Transfer 3. Both seem a bit small, are they big enough to be practical? Also regarding the deploy, the one in the shop seemed a bit wobbly between the shaft and blade, is this common and is it a problem in the field?

My skiing is typically side-country in Europe, and no I haven't taken an avi course but I'm booked into one in two weeks time.

If you skied with me, I would offer you my full-sized snow shovel with solid metal blade. You would also get to use my newest, easiest to use, top of the line transceiver too. Myself, I would use your flimsy little plastic shovel and the crappy out-dated beacon.... You deserve the best gear. That's just the kind of guy I am!

Get a large, durable shovel. I have the transfer 7 and like it a lot. It gets used for digging out snowmobiles the most, but I wouldn't want a smaller shovel for anything.

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Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs

If you skied with me, I would offer you my full-sized snow shovel with solid metal blade. You would also get to use my newest, easiest to use, top of the line transceiver too. Myself, I would use your flimsy little plastic shovel and the crappy out-dated beacon.... You deserve the best gear. That's just the kind of guy I am!

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such nice people here :smile:

just bought a deploy 7 online. The more I looked at them in the shops the more those deploy/transfer 3's just looked far too small for any serious job. If they are too small, then it begs the question why they are sold.

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Originally Posted by cberry

just bought a deploy 7 online. The more I looked at them in the shops the more those deploy/transfer 3's just looked far too small for any serious job. If they are too small, then it begs the question why they are sold.

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eh? when you are hacking away at debris a big grain scoop ain't going to help you. Neither will a massive shovel help a smaller person. Horses for courses.... unless you need to swing your schlong online.

I have the transfer 7 as well. I've done a fair bit of digging and while the connection between the blade and handle isn't super snug, I've never found it to be an issue. The only issue I have had is that the shovel blade won't fit in some shovel compartments, so check it with your pack if you can.

I found that my Voile Telepro T6 shovel fits in some small packs.
That's because the handle disconnects into 2 short pieces.
With a good sized blade (piece#3), I can still fit the shovel in the gear pocket of my covert 22L.
Pretty good for a shovel with a D-grip.
So, I would recommend the T6 based on that.
When I tried the BD shovels, they collapse, but as mentioned above, remain big, so are tough to pack.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Beacons:
The beacon that works for you.
The beacon that you are familiar with.
The beacon that you practice with.

Best Beacons:
There are no bad beacons... only bad beacons for you. (Most people choose digital over analog as what is best for them)

Shovels:
Large blade of suitable quality
Long enough shaft (preferably extendable)
Quick assembly
Bomber Construction
D or L handle (no T handles)

Best Shovels:
SOS (customizable including optional internal snow saws)
Voile
BCA (the extendable ones or at least a Companion fixed D)
G3
Life Link (metal AND composite)

Recommended Probe List:
Longer than 240cm (no fit in shovel probes)
Oversized tip
Metal or kevlar internal tensioner
Quick assembly

Best Probes:
BCA: Profile 240cm QUICKIE & SR3 300cm QUICKIE (this years design makes the the best probes on the market)
Black Diamond: Super Tour 265cm & Guide 300cm
SOS: Standard 2.8 280cm & Ultra 3.2 320cm
Mammut: Expert 265cm

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Originally Posted by Summit

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Yup, did that and only found your very brief review of the Ortovox Grizzly 2:

http://www.ortovox.com/content/en/pr...ovels/grizzly2

Anyone else have any comments on this shovel? Lets see now over the years I've had a couple Voile D grip shovels and an older orange BD shovel. I think I have 1 & 1/2 left of the three (one is in my pack now).

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Originally Posted by Summit

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eh, you were wrong about T handles then and you are still wrong about them.whatever.

If you are buying a shovel read up on HOW TO SHOVEL
http://www.backcountryaccess.com/eng...kinsISSW06.pdf

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

If you are buying a shovel read up on HOW TO SHOVEL
http://www.backcountryaccess.com/eng...kinsISSW06.pdf

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awesome link, thanks.

So the deploy 7 has arrived, there is very little play between the shaft and blade (much less than the deploy 3's I tested in the store) and it fits snugly in the covert 32, so overall a happy choice though wouldn't mind not having to use it ;)

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

eh, you were wrong about T handles then and you are still wrong about them.whatever.

If you are buying a shovel read up on HOW TO SHOVEL
http://www.backcountryaccess.com/eng...kinsISSW06.pdf

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I agree that Bruce's Srategic Shoveling article is a good one to read.

T handles are rare in the shovel world outside of avi shovels. I've always seen T handles as a tradeoff... going slightly smaller and slightly lighter in exchange for a reduction in digging ergonomics (speed) especially at (frequently encountered) weird angles. I will say that the T handle does offer less of a chance of breaking than a D, but I consider handle breakage a low possibility. In my experience, I found the L handles like the SOS and some Ortovox shovels have to be superior to the T handle ergonomics while offering the same benefits. I use an SOS shovel with an L handle. I also have a BCA shovel with a D handle.

hmmm no I wasn't wrong about them "then" because I edited in the handle comments when I made the post in this thread. As for being wrong now, do you have an argument to make in favor of T handles?

I used to be opposed to T handles because I liked to wear mitts and the handle made this difficult unless wearing gloves. The Transfer 7 that I now use has an indent where your fingers go and I find it usable with mitts.

I really like this shovel and think that it is large and durable enough to quickly move large volumes of snow, but it becomes compact enough to fit inside my pack.

as a glove only wearer: I own two D-handle shovels and a T-handle rides in my pack cause I like that shovel the best and do not notice a real substantial difference in performance between D and T.

A note on shovels, you'll almost never see an kind of shoveling professional (aka: ditch digger) using anything but a long straight handled shovel with no grip, the obvious exception to this is a literal grainscoop.

Example of the L handle:

http://www.sos-find.com/pages/media/SOSDeluxeSaw.jpg

Here the an SOS Deluxe handle I use. They call the handle and "offset-T"

SOS produces no normal T handles.

http://www.ortovox.com/img.php?imageid=61

Here is Ortovox's Pro Alu... they call it an "ergonomic T-handle"

Ortovox only has traditional T handles on their budget model lexan shovels.

Even G3 is starting to offset their T handles albeit not as severely and I still don't like their Ts:
http://www.genuineguidegear.com/imag...prod_tgrip.jpg

ETA I messed around with an Ortovox Grizzly 2 again last night... sick shovel... I think you could kill a goat with it...

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Originally Posted by Summit

Even G3 is starting to offset their T handles albeit not as severely and I still don't like their Ts

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You don't like them. Bully for your side. My hand doesn't fit well into the D handles I've tried and I don't like the fixed shoveling position. BFD. This is retarded.