Replacing Marker Griffon demo bindings for Look Pivot - worth it?

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Now that you've gotten all of this solid feedback, it's time to post pics of your wife's/girlfriend's tits.

[Shorty_J]

Hmm, now I'm rethinking. Esp because more heavy is more better in my mind. I have a little slop when I wiggle my ski, pretty minor but noticeable. You think it's enough to make a difference on snow? I don't notice but I only have demo binders and touring binders to compare to.

Can you describe the slop?

I've noticed some play in the heel and toe pieces without the boot clicked in but once I do I've never noticed it.

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[XXX-er]

exactly ^^ once you click in the forward pressure of the binding takes up the slop

[ntblanks]

I'm big on learning by trying stuff. Yeah, it's an investment, but if you love to ski... Pivots sit as low on the ski as you can get in a modern alpine binding afaik It's a different experience than standing tall on a demo binding (though stack height on griffon demos isn't the worst (but there is reverse delta, which is uncommon)). I like both demo & pivot but they're pretty different designs. My thought: grab the pivots and get a used pair of wide skis cheap to try em out. You'll find out what all the fuss is about and you can decide for yourself. And if you don't like 'em, pivots are easy to sell.

[Shorty_J]

I'm big on learning by trying stuff. Yeah, it's an investment, but if you love to ski... Pivots sit as low on the ski as you can get in a modern alpine binding afaik It's a different experience than standing tall on a demo binding (though stack height on griffon demos isn't the worst (but there is reverse delta, which is uncommon)). I like both demo & pivot but they're pretty different designs. My thought: grab the pivots and get a used pair of wide skis cheap to try em out. You'll find out what all the fuss is about and you can decide for yourself. And if you don't like 'em, pivots are easy to sell.

I am wrong a lot and may be again, but I think because of gripwalk compatibility, pivots hanged the toe shim, resulting in similar stack but different ramp.

I feel like I read somewhere that attack NON demo has the lowest stack height.

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[phatboy64]

I'm big on learning by trying stuff. Yeah, it's an investment, but if you love to ski... Pivots sit as low on the ski as you can get in a modern alpine binding afaik It's a different experience than standing tall on a demo binding (though stack height on griffon demos isn't the worst (but there is reverse delta, which is uncommon)). I like both demo & pivot but they're pretty different designs. My thought: grab the pivots and get a used pair of wide skis cheap to try em out. You'll find out what all the fuss is about and you can decide for yourself. And if you don't like 'em, pivots are easy to sell.

I am assuming by reverse delta you mean the toe is higher then the heal. Other then being taller across the board the heal is 4 mm taller than the toe

Look Pivot 18
* Stack Height: 18 mm (toe); 19 mm (heel)
* Elasticity – Toe: 40 mm
* Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm

Marker Griffon 13 ID
* Stack Height: 18 mm (toe); 22 mm (heel)
* Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
* Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm

[gregorys]

I dunno, maybe I'm just a caveman skier, but what's the obsession with stack height?
Perhaps I'm kind of like Remy's brother (Emile) eating any old shit in Ratatouille (Pixar), but I've never considered it much. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtEjJuGo_U)

Stack height? Really?
I've stepped off a pair of skis onto another pair with lower stack and I've never noticed any difference.
(I'd swear I traded Cochises's with a friend this year - he was on Attack1's and mine are Attack2's. Certainly I've done it before with other skis.)

I don't want to say it doesn't matter at all. I'd guess it probably does. But I'd be shocked if I could tell a difference, in a blinded test.
Thag full after eating garbage. Thag go back to skiing now.

[sierra_cement]

I dunno, maybe I'm just a caveman skier, but what's the obsession with stack height?
Perhaps I'm kind of like Remy's brother (Emile) eating any old shit in Ratatouille (Pixar), but I've never considered it much. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtEjJuGo_U)

Stack height? Really?
I've stepped off a pair of skis onto another pair with lower stack and I've never noticed any difference.
(I'd swear I traded Cochises's with a friend this year - he was on Attack1's and mine are Attack2's. Certainly I've done it before with other skis.)

I don't want to say it doesn't matter at all. I'd guess it probably does. But I'd be shocked if I could tell a difference, in a blinded test.
Thag full after eating garbage. Thag go back to skiing now.

That ^^. I've got Griffens, attacks, pivots, wardens, some as demos, but most as fixed bindings, in my quiver. If you blindfolded me, i wouldn't be able to tell the difference while clicked in and skiing.

Pivots prerelease less than the others for me, but that's about it.

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[CaliBrit]

I dunno, maybe I'm just a caveman skier, but what's the obsession with stack height?
Perhaps I'm kind of like Remy's brother (Emile) eating any old shit in Ratatouille (Pixar), but I've never considered it much. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtEjJuGo_U)

Stack height? Really?
I've stepped off a pair of skis onto another pair with lower stack and I've never noticed any difference.
(I'd swear I traded Cochises's with a friend this year - he was on Attack1's and mine are Attack2's. Certainly I've done it before with other skis.)

I don't want to say it doesn't matter at all. I'd guess it probably does. But I'd be shocked if I could tell a difference, in a blinded test.
Thag full after eating garbage. Thag go back to skiing now.

You look shorter on your skis so you can get away with skiing on a kids pass. Same reason you use short poles. Just capitalism at work.

[XXX-er]

I dunno, maybe I'm just a caveman skier, but what's the obsession with stack height?
Perhaps I'm kind of like Remy's brother (Emile) eating any old shit in Ratatouille (Pixar), but I've never considered it much. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtEjJuGo_U)

Stack height? Really?
I've stepped off a pair of skis onto another pair with lower stack and I've never noticed any difference.
(I'd swear I traded Cochises's with a friend this year - he was on Attack1's and mine are Attack2's. Certainly I've done it before with other skis.)

I don't want to say it doesn't matter at all. I'd guess it probably does. But I'd be shocked if I could tell a difference, in a blinded test.

well you don't sound like any special flower if you don't get the nose bleeds from the extra stack height ?

i think somebody wrote it in a ski mag artical cuz they needed to fill the page with something/ anything regarding a big nothing subject, so now everybody can feel the dreaded extra stack height

while ironcaly the slalom skiers who actulay are really good skiers who really are competing want more stack height for more clearance & more leverage

I think stack height is BS, I think once the boot is under forward pressure slop in a demo binding is BS ... maybe if we repeat this enough it will also become true

i put a 25mm G3 shim under a Riva II and skied it with a leather boot ... I couldn't feel the difference

[Shorty_J]

I dunno, maybe I'm just a caveman skier, but what's the obsession with stack height?
Perhaps I'm kind of like Remy's brother (Emile) eating any old shit in Ratatouille (Pixar), but I've never considered it much. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtEjJuGo_U)

Stack height? Really?
I've stepped off a pair of skis onto another pair with lower stack and I've never noticed any difference.
(I'd swear I traded Cochises's with a friend this year - he was on Attack1's and mine are Attack2's. Certainly I've done it before with other skis.)

I don't want to say it doesn't matter at all. I'd guess it probably does. But I'd be shocked if I could tell a difference, in a blinded test.
Thag full after eating garbage. Thag go back to skiing now.

It would be tougher to test as you'd really need multiple pairs of the same skis with the same bindings, but shimmed to different heights.

I'm not that rad of a skier but I can absolutely notice a difference of 1cm, and on some skis even 0.5cm of mount point change. But this is the same binding on the same ski with subtle changes forward and back, skied on the same day.

I'd bet there is a difference but I don't know what it is I don't have the equipment to properly test it.

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[XXX-er]

i remounted a ripped out tech toe 1 cm back cuz of topsheet damage for a buddy , injected the area with slow set & remounted, asked if he wanted the other ski changed he said lets try it like that

good skier, sez no difference he can tell and its still lopsided

[Shorty_J]

i remounted a ripped out tech toe 1 cm back cuz of topsheet damage for a buddy , injected the area with slow set & remounted, asked if he wanted the other ski changed he said lets try it like that

good skier, sez no difference he can tell and its still lopsided

Ok but let's take this experiment to the extreme and say we mount 1 ski 5cm further back than the other. Would you feel it then?

If you agree you would then there is a difference even in 1cm... it's just a matter of scale.

Telling someone not to stress because they have to go 1cm from where they would prefer is fair, but this is tech talk and it's ok to geek out on what is better and why.

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[XXX-er]

Ok but let's take this experiment to the extreme and say we mount 1 ski 5cm further back than the other. Would you feel it then?

If you agree you would then there is a difference even in 1cm... it's just a matter of scale.

Telling someone not to stress because they have to go 1cm from where they would prefer is fair, but this is tech talk and it's ok to geek out on what is better and why.

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yes you would feel a 5cm mismatch but we are talking about 1 cm or a 1/2 inch in American

I have moved boot centr up to 6cm (both skis) with a 4frt dead bolt demo binding on a wailer, did back to back pow runs IME you you don't feel 1cm, you start to feel 2cm, I actualy liked/ stayed at +4cm themostest and 6 was unbalanced but 1 inch off the ski I couldnt feel with leatehr boots and skinny skis so i actulay have played with mounting points back to back in a more or less organized fashion as oposed to just repeating something i read on TGR

In any case what we got on this page is a few skiers finally coming togetehr on something they thot was bulshit sayin " hey can you feel a difference cuz i can't " so either they are caveman or somebody made up the initial idea, then somebody repeated it enough to become an accepted idea and that is the crux of it

its ok to geek out on what is better and why but its also ok to point out y'all were fed and might just be repeating bulshit ... what is known as " the illusory truth effect "


" Do you guys think these will make much difference? " was the initial good question, so why waste OP's money ?

[gregorys]

well you don't sound like any special flower if you don't get the nose bleeds from the extra stack height ?

<snark>
In all fairness, I should be impacted way more than the usual person for stack height.
I mean, the last time I climbed Mt Adams, I got HAPE.

So, if I don't feel the stack height, I think it's all a myth!
</snark>

(Yeah, I know, like ... Am I a wimp or what!? FTR, I always feel like crap above like 8K when I'm climbing. Sucks. Don't climb much any more.)