Official ATK Binding Thread

[galibier_numero_un]

In an attempt to suss out the dizzying ATK lineup, I put together a spreadsheet and posted it to the 300g binding thread (https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...83#post5917083).

@Calbrit suggested starting up a thread dedicated to ATK binders, and here it is. He mentioned a Freeraider thread, but I couldn't find it. If anyone has any links you want me to stash in this post, lemme know.

Some relevant links (non-TGR):

• ATK catalog for 2020/21 - downloadable from our very own @Spyderjon of The Piste Office (buy stuff from him at https://www.thepisteoffice.com/). Catalog download link is here: https://www.thepisteoffice.com/image...%20web%202.pdf
• ATK Manuals & Mounting Templates: https://www.atkbindings.com/en/downloads-2/
• Black Diamond: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...S/ski-bindings
• Hagan: https://www.haganskimountaineering.c.../tech-bindings
• Skimo: https://skimo.co/alpine-touring-bindings

Associated TGR Threads:

• Raider/Freeraider thread from 2014: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...14-DIN-binding
• Overlapping thread on BD Helios Bindings: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...elios-bindings

Notes:

• User measured pin delta (ramp angle) and riser heights were added to the chart below.
• If you're sending in a measurement, please measure the distance from ski top sheet to center of toe and heel pins. While not perfect, it's the most transferable way of measuring this (that's how skimo does it as well).
• Two comparison rows were added at the bottom (Fritschi Vipec Black, Plum Guide 12) to give you a riser height reference.
• For numbers retrieved from skimo.co, their riser deltas look reasonable, but their intermediate numbers (the raw riser height in the column below) are inconsistent, and I left them out.

Toe Height = Height from topsheet to center of pins with boot engaged (subtract any shims you've added).
Heel Height = Height from topsheet to center of pins (subtract any shims you've added).

Riser Height = Height from topsheet to where center of pins would engage in boot fitting (subtract any shims you've added).

Ramp Delta = Heel height minus Toe Height

Riser Delta = Riser height minus Toe Height

I'll update the spreadsheet and screen shot (below) with 2020/2021 info. The catalog link is above.

2020/21 Model Year Notes:

• The Raider/Freeraider name now refers to the heel brake version of the line which now has 3 bindings.
• The 3 versions in the Raider line are: Raider-12, C-Raider-12 (carbon base plate on toe), and Freeraider-14
• The old Raider 12 (front brake) has been renamed the "Front 12" and there is no longer a 14 RV version with a brake at the toe.
• The Haute Route gets a new buddy in the speed touring category - the Release 10 @240g (key features are elastic travel at the heel and some carbon composite)

A downloadable copy of the spreadsheet is here (Excel 2013): https://galibierdesign.com/images/other_forums/ATK_Comparison.xlsx




I'm not that familiar with the race bindings, so details like risers and such might be off. I think I got the OEM binding names from Hagan and BD correct. Lemme know and I'll make the necessary connections.

A couple of questions were raised. Might as well paste them (and answers) here as well ...

Trofeo plus weight doesn't include the heel track which weighs 33g with hardware hence the Helio version being called the 180.
https://skimo.co/black-diamond-adjustment-plates

Nice. Some good nuggets in that freeraider thread too.
Still not that sure on RT 10 vs Crest main difference.... seems odd they are both in the line. Perhaps they won’t come next season.

The RT10 has some system to setup the spring force on the toe when walking, like on the R12 / FR14. There are 5 different settings.

http://www.atkbindings.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/rt-8-_rev04.pdf

Page 30.

Other than that and 20g there is no other major difference, the RT10 may have a slight better finish.

... Thom

[kid-kapow]

since I'm a one trick pony

These were new for me today - had not seen them before. Basically a R12 heel mated with a toe made out of polycarbonates to save weight - coming in at a very respectable 305gr a binding. Awesomeness imho, and very impressive engineering. The new Front12 that he also introduces in the video is also pretty neat - for those who want their touring bindings to have fully active brakes in the toepiece.

[stuntmanbo]

Since it was asked before : The ATK rear stoppers fits about 2mm more without bending.
The 97mm stoppers fits my 99mm skis without bending, the 108mm stoppers had to be bent a bit to fit my 112mm skis.
This is about the same for the front stoppers, the 108mm stoppers fitted my 109mm skis tightly without bending.

Here is my current touring quiver with 2 pairs of R12 :-)

[CaliBrit]

Official ATK Binding Thread

I got the thread name a little wrong:

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/273839-ATK-raider-14-DIN-binding

FR14 discussion later in the thread.

[SupreChicken]

Thom...thank you for starting this. The column I would like to see that isn’t there is a pin height delta or ramp or whatever you’d like to call it - something documenting the difference in toe height vs heel height

[CaliBrit]

Rumors that BD is bringing a version of the FR14 to the US for next season.

[JoeyFish]

Rumors that BD is bringing a version of the FR14 to the US for next season.

A couple of the BD SLC retail store guys confirmed that the Helio 350 will be out for next season.

It was also mentioned in a blister review of the new Helio skis I believe (might not have been blister, but I saw it somewhere)

[CaliBrit]

Thom...thank you for starting this. The column I would like to see that isn’t there is a pin height delta or ramp or whatever you’d like to call it - something documenting the difference in toe height vs heel height

The u pin bindings are pretty much flat. They are about 6-7 mm with the adjustment plate.

Other bindings all seem to be in the 10-11 mm range. Measured my FR14 at 11.

Source:

https://skimo.co/pin-heights

Plus other internets.

[Jonathan S.]

You're a brave man for attempting this, thanks!

If you want to get really picky though, the Hagan Ultra and the BD Helio 110 are exactly the same as each other.
However, for the 2019-20 season, neither have an exact correspondence with the ATK line-up, since both the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight World Cup use the new rolling-in pins:

https://www.haganskimountaineering.com/collections/accessories/products/ultra-u-springs-with-rolling-in-system?variant=31288094425167

,,, which allow for a smoother entry (although bigger guys on firmer snow probably will never notice the difference, but should be a nice plus for lighter skiers and/or race transition zones w/ softer snow), and also won't wear down like Ti pins.
As implied by that link I posted, you can buy the Hagan Ultra now and upgrade it to either the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight World Cup by simply substituting in the after-market rolling pin (which takes only several seconds). And this isn't much of an incremental cost since you can readily sell the OEM Ti pins to anyone who has worn-down Ti pins (myself included).
For next season (and possibly further into the current season), the Hagan binding will become the Ultra World Cup with the rolling-in pins. I don't know about BD's plans.

[Jonathan S.]

More persnickitiness: the R.C.A World Cup Vertical and Revolution World Cup share the two-position heel riser of the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight Worldcup.
(Which is really just the standard low riser plus flat -- or really slightly negative -- by turning the heel sideways. The Trofeo provides a higher position with a slightly different sculpting of the heel unit that allows that riser to be folding back flat in the opposition direction, then you spin the heel 180 degrees. In theory you can do this with the other models, but you'll risk breaking the flap!)

[Spyderjon]

I've mounted quite a few ATK's (most with QK inserts) and have made a few toe shims for them. I've not yet skied a set but they've impressed me enough to be stocking them from next season.

Here's a list of the QK screw specs for the bindings I've done so far. Some of them were last season so I'm not sure if they're still the same:

Raider 12 2.0 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
FR14 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads
FR14 2.0 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
R12 - 8no. 10mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
Crest - 8no. 12mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm

And I've just made these FR14 2.0 4mm toe shims:

[JKlompus]

Official ATK Binding Thread

Was going to post this in the free raider thread but figured people with R12s might be interested as well.
I had a pin work lose on one FR14 toe piece. ATK sent me a replacement set of toes which I might just put a dab of epoxy on to be safe. Saw someone post on atk’s Instagram account of the same issue. Here’s a pic of the problem.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

You'd better put vibratite or locktite on this, epoxy won't help a lot

[L82thegate]

Out of curiousity, did ATK deal directly with you? Their customer support has declined to assist me getting the little spacer part that fits under the FR 12 heel. Claim is no U.S. support, try the retailer and that's not going well. Probably have to fabricate one but curious if they would deal with a clear binding failure issue or is it go back to the retailer? Thanks.

[Jonathan S.]

[...] For next season (and possibly further into the current season), the Hagan binding will become the Ultra World Cup with the rolling-in pins.[...]

Update of sorts: just now mounted a new setup that had arrived last Wednesday, and, oh, the Ultra bindings are already shipping with the new rolling-in pins.