Buckles vs BOA - New Boots

[Castro's]

After years of foot pain in my Nordica Hell and Back's it's time to retire them. I've been on the hunt the last couple years for new boots and after trying on few different models last spring when inventory was scarce in my size the Lange Shadows seemed to fit the best and feel the most comfortable. Went into evo Denver on Sunday and tried on everything under the sun from Lange Shadows to the dual BOA S/Pro Supras, Nordicas and everything in-between. Of course standing In a ski shop for an hour is nothing like actually skiing in them. Out of box fit came down to the Saloman S/Pro Supra Dual Boa and the Lange Shadow with traditional buckles. After spending some time with one on each foot I experienced no noticeable circulation cutoff in the Langes, but noticed some in the Salomons. The Salomon liners were noticeablely cushier than the Langes. The dilema - go with the best out of the box fit with the Langes or move forward with the future and go with the Dual BOA Salomons and have work done. Challenging part is I currently live nowhere near a boot fitter (while I have one where I live I wouldn't trust them and they only sell Rossi boots and nothing else. Closest is 800 miles away). My daughter lives within walking distance of evo Denver, so it makes it somewhat convenient when visiting.

Side note - I did end up purchasing the Langes at evo, however, at 6'1 220lbs I'm a big guy and ski fast and aggressive. Every boot fitter including evo said I definitely should stick with a 130 flex if not 140. Evo said they might have last year's model in stock and would be half price. I said great! They checked and said they had them available to ship from their warehouse so I purchased. When I walked out and checked my emailed receipt they ordered the 120s and not the 130s. I walked back in and asked why he did that and was told "oh yeah we dont have the 130s, but the 120s should work fine - can always change out the power strap). Needless to say I'm not thrilled and am returning them out of principle and will purchase elsewhere even if I pay more. Full disclosure matters. I shouldn't find out by looking at my receipt walking out the door.

[altacoup]

Stores like evo, backcountry totally suck for boots. IMO even specialty boot shops suck because the fitter is always pushing an agenda, ie putting you in the boot that requires the least amount of work. You need to know what actually fits you, by trying on everything. I’ve probably put every boot on the market on my foot and know there’s really only 2 that actually fit good. That said if you fit a Lange shadow, just get a Nordica pro machine unless you have a caveman ankle. The heel retention in the Nordica is 100% better than a Lange and the stock liner is infinitely better. Lange boots seem to cause the most foot issues of any boot I’ve seen. Fairly narrow but not enough heel retention causing gnarly heel spurs. I’ve seen multiple skiers lose half a season due to Lange heel issues. In general if you have a Lange foot, buy a Nordica. Better fit (heel is much more defined), better plastic (the black is actually much better than the blue plastic), better liner(cork in the heel pocket vs foam). But rule number 1 in boot fitting is knowing what you want and if you need alterations to the shell knowing how to properly communicate that to the fitter.


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[whambat]

You can’t make a 120 boot for someone your size. I’m 215 and debate is 130 v 140. The lower boot on a stiffer boot is stiffer/ thicker plastic. A 120 you will be bending that plastic onto the top of your foot. ????

[Djongo Unchained]

After years of foot pain in my Nordica Hell and Back's it's time to retire them. I've been on the hunt the last couple years for new boots and after trying on few different models last spring when inventory was scarce in my size the Lange Shadows seemed to fit the best and feel the most comfortable. Went into evo Denver on Sunday and tried on everything under the sun from Lange Shadows to the dual BOA S/Pro Supras, Nordicas and everything in-between. Of course standing In a ski shop for an hour is nothing like actually skiing in them. Out of box fit came down to the Saloman S/Pro Supra Dual Boa and the Lange Shadow with traditional buckles. After spending some time with one on each foot I experienced no noticeable circulation cutoff in the Langes, but noticed some in the Salomons. The Salomon liners were noticeablely cushier than the Langes. The dilema - go with the best out of the box fit with the Langes or move forward with the future and go with the Dual BOA Salomons and have work done. Challenging part is I currently live nowhere near a boot fitter (while I have one where I live I wouldn't trust them and they only sell Rossi boots and nothing else. Closest is 800 miles away). My daughter lives within walking distance of evo Denver, so it makes it somewhat convenient when visiting.

Side note - I did end up purchasing the Langes at evo, however, at 6'1 220lbs I'm a big guy and ski fast and aggressive. Every boot fitter including evo said I definitely should stick with a 130 flex if not 140. Evo said they might have last year's model in stock and would be half price. I said great! They checked and said they had them available to ship from their warehouse so I purchased. When I walked out and checked my emailed receipt they ordered the 120s and not the 130s. I walked back in and asked why he did that and was told "oh yeah we dont have the 130s, but the 120s should work fine - can always change out the power strap). Needless to say I'm not thrilled and am returning them out of principle and will purchase elsewhere even if I pay more. Full disclosure matters. I shouldn't find out by looking at my receipt walking out the door.

If evo has every boot you could want, that's lucky. But I'd suggest next time you're in Denver, consider shopping further than walking distance from your daughter's place. Lotsa knowledge in that city; and considering that BS the guy laid on you about 120v.130 and replacing the strap? Holee fuck, I'da laughed and made the shop manager aware of that lack of bootselling skills. That's laughingstock level ineptitude. Principles suggest you run away.

Your size and skills def asking for a 130+ but performance over comfort should be a debate. Ski in a warm climate-stiffer. Cold as fuck home hill - a little softer is viable. Echoing AC, getting the shell that fits you best right outta the box is the aim. Finish fitting is minimal and overall fit is as close as the shell allows.

Lotsa lange shadows on sale online. Maybe a NOS RX130, very close shell fits.

You can’t make a 120 boot for someone your size. I’m 215 and debate is 130 v 140. The lower boot on a stiffer boot is stiffer/ thicker plastic. A 120 you will be bending that plastic onto the top of your foot. ???

Skier size is only one of a variety of factors regarding preferred stiffness. A 6'2" guy at 215 lbs who is in his second season and has about 15 days behind him? a 120 might be perfect. Same guy as a charger? Then no, he'll fold it.
Or throw in an Intuition Power wrap, way less likely to fold that.

[whambat]

Skier size is only one of a variety of factors regarding preferred stiffness. A 6'2" guy at 215 lbs who is in his second season and has about 15 days behind him? a 120 might be perfect. Same guy as a charger? Then no, he'll fold it.
Or throw in an Intuition Power wrap, way less likely to fold that.

[/QUOTE]

He described himself as big and aggressive. I stand by my statement.

[whambat]

To the OP: you don’t mention your size but Blue Zone online last years Shadow 140 either in 26.5 or 28.5. The 140 has a better liner and power strap. A good boot fitter can soften the flex if you need.

[Castro's]

To the OP: you don’t mention your size but Blue Zone online last years Shadow 140 either in 26.5 or 28.5. The 140 has a better liner and power strap. A good boot fitter can soften the flex if you need.

Damn - that's an absolute steal of a price even for the 130s. I'm a 28.5 MV. I'm usually pretty good ar finding deals online, but hadn't came across Bluezone. I ended up ordering the 130s through a trusted shop that's local to a good friend of mine for a bit more than that price, but happy to give a local small town shop the business.

The GW soles aren"t compatible with my OG Bro Models with Looks. Probably time to retire both - at least the bindings. The 188 OG Bros have been a great ride the past 20 years.

[Djongo Unchained]

Lange Alpine din soles cost $50 at any decent shop.

[Dantheman]

Stores like evo, backcountry totally suck for boots...You need to know what actually fits you, by trying on everything.

That's why BC and Evo are great for boots. Order 10+ pairs through a gearhead and have them add free return shipping to the order. Spend a week trying them all on at home with no rush and no pressure, then send all losers back for free.

[Castro's]

The 120s arrived and I can fold them like a sheet of paper. My Nordica Hell n Back 120s are exponentially stiffer and it's not even close.

[whambat]

Yeah new flex ratings are pretty much bull. I had some park boot Salomon’s from the late 90’s that were rated 95 that are stiffer than current 120s. I also think Lange’s 130 flex in the RS series are a soft 130.

[XXX-er]

I been on some 110 rated 4 buckle Dalbello which seem to be stiff enough, somebody on TGR gave me a free pair of the exact same boot for a free pair of orange ID intuition's which I swapped after maybe 12 yrs and they feel exactly the same but I am probably just an insensitive bastard

i get the idea the rating is pretty subjective

[singlesline]

Tried on some double boas today.

Was interesting. Felt kind of disconcerting to not have the satisfying flip of a buckle but I could see the benefit of being able to easily fine tune feel with a dial rather than adjusting buckle length.

More interesting than boa on the lowers which gets a big meh from me as someone who only uses just enough lower buckle to hold the shell together.

[gregL]

After years of foot pain in my Nordica Hell and Back's it's time to retire them. I've been on the hunt the last couple years for new boots and after trying on few different models last spring when inventory was scarce in my size the Lange Shadows seemed to fit the best and feel the most comfortable. Went into evo Denver on Sunday and tried on everything under the sun from Lange Shadows to the dual BOA S/Pro Supras, Nordicas and everything in-between. Of course standing In a ski shop for an hour is nothing like actually skiing in them. Out of box fit came down to the Saloman S/Pro Supra Dual Boa and the Lange Shadow with traditional buckles. After spending some time with one on each foot I experienced no noticeable circulation cutoff in the Langes, but noticed some in the Salomons. The Salomon liners were noticeablely cushier than the Langes. The dilema - go with the best out of the box fit with the Langes or move forward with the future and go with the Dual BOA Salomons and have work done. Challenging part is I currently live nowhere near a boot fitter (while I have one where I live I wouldn't trust them and they only sell Rossi boots and nothing else. Closest is 800 miles away). My daughter lives within walking distance of evo Denver, so it makes it somewhat convenient when visiting.

Side note - I did end up purchasing the Langes at evo, however, at 6'1 220lbs I'm a big guy and ski fast and aggressive. Every boot fitter including evo said I definitely should stick with a 130 flex if not 140. Evo said they might have last year's model in stock and would be half price. I said great! They checked and said they had them available to ship from their warehouse so I purchased. When I walked out and checked my emailed receipt they ordered the 120s and not the 130s. I walked back in and asked why he did that and was told "oh yeah we dont have the 130s, but the 120s should work fine - can always change out the power strap). Needless to say I'm not thrilled and am returning them out of principle and will purchase elsewhere even if I pay more. Full disclosure matters. I shouldn't find out by looking at my receipt walking out the door.

It's not how the boot fits out of the box, but how it fits by the time you walk out the door.

Pretty much all shops have a few excellent bootfitters who can solve almost any problem (as long as the shell is appropriate), a few good bootfitters who can do most things if you know to ask, and six to ten brand new fitters each season; you want on of the excellent ones. Your bootfitter should have the confidence to put you in a boot that's on the uncomfortable side and tell you how they would fix the issues.

If the fitter you worked with didn't tell you you can raise the instep on the Salomon S/Pro Supra with a good shell mold and some adhesive foam over the instep, they were remiss (instep pressure is almost always the culprit with reduced circulation, though it can sometimes be calf pressure). Keep in mind any boot that feels good to great in the shop will llikely be too loose after 5-6 days of skiing.

As for buckles vs BOA, I wouldn't pick a boot based on that anyway (though you'll have a harder and harder time finding a non-BOA 130 or 140 flex that's not a race boot.

[tenB]

I’m about your same size and even the shadow 130 will feel way too soft with your skiing style. I agree with above post that if the Lange fits, go buy a Nordica Promachine 130. Add a booster strap and thank me later.