Second/Vacation Homes

[Danno]

Wife and I are leaving this afternoon for a backpacking trip into the Big Ditch. You should do yourself a favor and get yer ass down there to see it. It's simply spectacular.

I've done it 3 times, it's insanely magical. Have fun!

[skaredshtles]

I've done it 3 times, it's insanely magical. Have fun!

This will be my 3rd trip in and the wife's 1st. She's been several times to the Canyon but never more than a couple hours below the rim. She's been waiting to do this trip for almost 30 years.

[Bronco]

[ATTACH]501307[/ATTACH] TGR Forums

Thanks for reminding me to sweep our cabin's stove pipe this weekend!

[singlesline]

As a Gen Xer with most of my friends in their 30s and 40s, I’ve seen a generational change in attitude on this topic. Warning: anecdata ahead

When I was a 22 yr old dirtbag, the idea/dream of a small vacation home with a ski resort and mtb/bc skiing options was very appealing. In fact I remember half-heartedly condo shopping in Mammoth in my 30s when that shit was affordable & HOA fees weren’t insane.

But it’s a different world. You may have heard of Ikon passes, climate change, wildfires etc. Nowadays it seems a 30 yr old with a decent job prioritizes getting a decent all-season van or camper so they can travel to where the skiing or biking is good. Snow forecast apps, wildfire smoke predictions, a network of friends in BC or UT or wherever seems to be the norm. And a Starlink.

But maybe The lake cottage or ski resort A-Frame dream is relevant to a 30 yr old planning to have kids. Seems (to me) that having a fixed vacation/weekend location is nice if you have all the crap you need already there. Even if it’s raining on a 2 ft base.

I think remote work has an interesting effect that can both ways.

On one hand, fully remote work means you don't really need to have a vacation home--just live where you want. Although many people are being called back to the office and if you have kids and a spouse in the mix it isn't always as clear. I certainly wouldn't want to raise/school my kid where my family's cottage was (and maybe you also want access to other stuff that your main home has)

On the other hand, the expansion in the ability to DO remote work makes it so you can potentially spend significantly more time at a cabin and do more extended stays. Maybe you have a desk job where you nominally have to live near the office/be hybrid...but most bosses aren't really gonna care if during the summer or school breaks you spend a lot of time working from your vacation home (probably because the bosses are doing the same thing from their much nicer vacation home).

Although that also shifts what it means to be a vacation home. Do you want to bring work energy into the place? Or have it be an escape where you don't even have internet/TV (although odds are good you'll have cell service these days)?

[Dromond]

I feel like I'm reading a lot of boomer stories from people who inherited properties or bought them on the cheap pre-covid. If you are buying a second home in the PNW these days, you are doing something for the second time that a huge amount of people will never able to do for the first time. The numbers do not work like they used to. We have good incomes, and the cost would be exorbitant to us. Even remote acreage is expensive for what it is. The covid price spikes in the west totally killed any of these dreams for me. Maybe some day!

[PNWbrit]

Owned our cabin near Crystal with another couple for ~20 years.

Bought it for a steal as a possible tear down and at the very least a top to bottom renovation. We ended up keeping the structure, doing almost all the work ourselves. Thoughts of breaking off some of the buildable acreage never got followed through on but we probably should've or should think about again.

The first 13/15 years or so we rented it sporadically. Mostly used it ourselves. Since then it has rented heavily (most notably these days summer business is incredible) and our use has become less frequent although still special to us.

The occasional big $ repair items can be a pain and we had a huge storm clean up bill when we lost a lot of trees on the property. But nowadays it's absolutely a cash cow and those are easily covered.

Overall we absolutely don't regret it, despite the occasional moments when we might have.

Prices in that market are now ridiculous. It wouldn't be a consideration to buy up there now.

Having good local handyman, a network of referrals for more specialized repairs and great cleaner are key to minimizing the headaches.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

I feel like I'm reading a lot of boomer stories from people who inherited properties or bought them on the cheap pre-covid. If you are buying a second home in the PNW these days, you are doing something for the second time that a huge amount of people will never able to do for the first time. The numbers do not work like they used to. We have good incomes, and the cost would be exorbitant to us. Even remote acreage is expensive for what it is. The covid price spikes in the west totally killed any of these dreams for me. Maybe some day!

You're not wrong. In our case, we were lucky (or ready to be lucky when the opportunity presented itself). We have 2 homes that we paid less than $500K (for both) that would easily bring $1.4M (for both) if we were selling now. I absolutely could not afford either house if I was buying it today.

As a real masochist, I was looking into buying a 3rd house in Driggs. You can get a 1 acre lot with direct views of the Grand for under $100K. I was hoping to be able to build a simple 1,500 sq ft, 3BR, 2 BA house with big windows facing east but the building costs out there are now north of $400/sq ft. No, I have no desire to STR any of my homes but I fucking love skiing at GT and could see spending 3 months in the winter and 2 months in the summer out there. Not going to happen though.

When I was growing up, we were pretty poor (my dad could never afford lift tix for us so we would walk up and ski down) and never went on vacations. With the 2 homes we have, I feel like I'm on vacation all the time. I lived in Yurp for 4 years when I was in the Army and skied well over 100 days back then. I love Austria and want to go back but a week or 10 days wouldn't do it for me. I love to travel but don't feel like I'm missing out by not traveling.

[Doremite]

Second/Vacation Homes

Even 10 years seems like ages ago with regard to housing affordability. Isn’t there a real estate crash thread around here? Joking aside, if you’re fortunate enough to buy and hold, real estate can be a serious wealth builder. X2 for most of us fortunate to have more than one housing asset (or equity in). The 20% down is such a nut shot for so many, especially in todays market. Love to see that give. Property tax breaks (time limited) for first time home buyers.

[Dromond]

You can get a 1 acre lot with direct views of the Grand for under $100K.

That seems shockingly cheap to me given today's reality.

Even 10 years seems like ages ago with regard to housing affordability. Isn’t there a real estate crash thread around here? Joking aside, if you’re fortunate enough to buy and hold, real estate can be a serious wealth builder. X2 for most of us fortunate to have more than one housing asset (or equity in). The 20% down is such a nut shot for so many, especially in todays market. Love to see that give. Property tax breaks (time limited) for first time home buyers.

It certainly has been a great wealth builder for many, but if we see anything like the amount of grown in value that has already occurred, then future affordability will be more dire. I think it is hard to guarantee that magic trick being reliable in the near future. Prices doubling in 10 years is crazy, which has happened in some of the desirable rural areas.

That said, owning a second home to use a minority of the year is an insane luxury, and I can't really feel bad for myself or anyone else for not being able to afford that. If you have one, enjoy it.

[Doremite]

Second/Vacation Homes

There are about 6,500,000 second homes in the US. About 650,000 homeless people. Not sure this really matters but interesting how many people can own more than 2 homes and we still can’t pull together basic services.

[Cisco Kid]

I suspect that in certain tax brackets by using certain tax strategies and with leverage of owning house 1, that a 2nd home is a better deal than the 1st net worth wise. 3rd and 4th homes even more so.
I don't own a home so I could be wrong.

[old goat]

To stress something I implied before--a second house makes a lot more sense for people with kids. I couldn't see doing it solo or with only a partner as a working age person. With the kids gone it still makes sense for us until we can't handle the work any more.

Regarding the last several posts--I understand how incredibly lucky we are to have this place, how lucky we are in a lot of ways, and how selfish we are to have this place. Being thankful for our blessings (not in a religious sense) doesn't put a roof over a homeless head I know, but it's the best I can manage.

[Mazderati]

Thoughts and prayers.

[Buster Highmen]

Yeah, let me iterate, I'm beyond cosmodigilogically lucky. I get it. I'm just a schmuck who stumbled into the place. It could have or should have been someone else.

[nickwm21]

Yeah….

[emoji638]nd homes…

Similar to the single earner households - it will go down as a phenomenon of the Boomers and Gen X. Similar to generations before the boomers; it will be reserved to the very few for millennials, gen z, and beyond…


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