The Hot Tub of Queso/Waxed Chain Thread

[J. Barron DeJong]

I haven’t performed any tests, or studied data of any tests. But, I have mountain biked around the intermountain west and desert southwest a good deal and have used lots of different chain lubes.

For the last couple years I have been a big fan of Muc Off C3 Ceramic Dry. In my experience it’s been better than Rock N Roll and Squirt which are both quite popular here.

I have a little sample bottle of the UFO but have only put it on other people’s bikes. It seems like one of those lubes where you shake the bottle like crazy, then squeeze hard as shit and nothing happens, then all of a sudden it spooges like 1oz. on a single link. Maybe that’s what makes it so good? Or maybe I just need to buy a crockpot?

Zero Friction is the only company that has ever done, and is currently doing, structured controlled lab chain wear testing for lubes. And they wear test for clean chain/dry contamination/wet contamination. Having that structured testing is really the best (only?) way to get to real definitive conclusions on what works, and when.

They haven’t tested the Muc Off C3, but did test the Hydrodynamic and Nano, and those were two off the worst lubes ever tested.

Can’t speak to the spooge situation with UFO, but maybe try poking the tip of the bottle with something before applying? Sounds like some lube has dried and hardened. It’s likely a much better lube than the Muc Off

[joetron]

I’ve been Molten Speed Queso-ing then using a tiny bit of Squirt to augment when I can start to hear a chirp or even just a little more ‘mechanical’ noise from my drivetrain. It’s been working great and chainwear measurement has been insanely good.
I’ve also had chirps disappear after a few minutes of pedaling as I assume the wax is warming up and re-penetrating where it needs to be.
We’ll be rolling out some sort of hot wax treatment/subscription at the shop next spring, for sure.


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[GeorgiaSnow]

I’ve had a pretty great experience with molten speedwax since July. The initial clean is work, but probably work everyone should be doing because all lubes perform better/your chain will last longer if you remove the factory sludge. My bike is currently filthy. It might have been that way most of the fall. I haven’t touched the chain other than a light rinse with cold water once since late July. Gx drivetrain still shifting incredible. I ride in a very dirty area. I will not go back. Have already converted the wife’s rig. Going to do the kids bikes and light all remaining heavy oil lubes on fire. Except I won’t because environment. I mean, I probably won’t.


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[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I’ve had a pretty great experience with molten speedwax since July. The initial clean is work, but probably work everyone should be doing because all lubes perform better/your chain will last longer if you remove the factory sludge. My bike is currently filthy. It might have been that way most of the fall. I haven’t touched the chain other than a light rinse with cold water once since late July. Gx drivetrain still shifting incredible. I ride in a very dirty area. I will not go back. Have already converted the wife’s rig. Going to do the kids bikes and light all remaining heavy oil lubes on fire. Except I won’t because environment. I mean, I probably won’t.


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Dirty area as in wet or as in dusty?

I found that with the melted queso I was still having the super fine moon dust sticking to the drivetrain. Obviously not nearly as bad with oil lubes though.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Dirty area as in wet or as in dusty?

I found that with the melted queso I was still having the super fine moon dust sticking to the drivetrain. Obviously not nearly as bad with oil lubes though.

I live in Truckee (Tahoe), and we have some pretty fantastic moon dust here. Before going to Molten Speed Wax, I tried the Silca Super Secret drip for a short period of time, but moondust was sticking to it. Dust doesn’t stick to the MSW, at all.

MSW isn’t made of regular off the shelf store parrafin, my understanding is they use a very refined, lab-grade low oil wax, and it does feel super dry to the touch.

I think you only tried the homemade Queso route, and had some beeswax in it? Beeswax is normally tacky, so if dust was an issue, that could have been the problem.

If someone wants to try the Queso bath method, they really should strongly considering just buying Molten Speed Wax, it’s not very expensive considering how much you get - remember it’s 100% lube, no solvent/water - and it’s going to work better than anything you make yourself. Silca Hot Melt also works very well based on testing, but no better (or even slightly worse) than MSW, and the Silca is much more expensive.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Yes I was adding beeswax to my parrafin in the fondue pot.

[Skistack]

I found that MSW will pick up some dust, but the dust doesn’t work itself into the chain (since it’s already full of MSW). A quick rinse or wipe and it’s GTG.


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[grskier]

I’ve been Molten Speed Queso-ing then using a tiny bit of Squirt to augment when I can start to hear a chirp or even just a little more ‘mechanical’ noise from my drivetrain. It’s been working great and chainwear measurement has been insanely good.
I’ve also had chirps disappear after a few minutes of pedaling as I assume the wax is warming up and re-penetrating where it needs to be.
We’ll be rolling out some sort of hot wax treatment/subscription at the shop next spring, for sure.


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That's such a good idea

[J. Barron DeJong]

That's such a good idea

Similarly, I’m keeping my Silca drip around as a fall back if I don’t get around to hot waxing - haven’t needed it yet.

Not sure how it’s working with the Squirt over the MSW, but in general Squirt is quite difficult to clean off the chain, whereas hot wax and some of the newer drip waxes can be cleaned off the chain with just some swishing around in hot water. Maybe something to keep in mind when choosing a lube to supplement hot wax.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Video that covers the hot wax process, from removing chain from bike, thru waxing, to reinstalling chain. Actual hot wax process is covered from minutes 8-13:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmriYX76NE#menu

[joetron]

Similarly, I’m keeping my Silca drip around as a fall back if I don’t get around to hot waxing - haven’t needed it yet.

Not sure how it’s working with the Squirt over the MSW, but in general Squirt is quite difficult to clean off the chain, whereas hot wax and some of the newer drip waxes can be cleaned off the chain with just some swishing around in hot water. Maybe something to keep in mind when choosing a lube to supplement hot wax.

We've been trying some different supplemental lubes, but haven't tried the Silca or UFO. Trying to stick more with a wax based and since we're not using much at all, cleaning has not been an issue. Its not anywhere near a full application of Squirt.
As far as cleaning goes before a Re-Molten Speed Queso-ing, we have an old Nalgene that we put some solvent from the tank in, and soak/shake it for a minute or two. Shake/wipe dry and hit with some air, then another minute or two in a bottle with some denatured alcohol for the final clean and that stuff evaporates off it in a few min. Then the queso dip.
I just looked at UFO....$45msrp?!! Even at cost, that seems bonkers, but I guess it lasts.

[J. Barron DeJong]

We've been trying some different supplemental lubes, but haven't tried the Silca or UFO. Trying to stick more with a wax based and since we're not using much at all, cleaning has not been an issue. Its not anywhere near a full application of Squirt.
As far as cleaning goes before a Re-Molten Speed Queso-ing, we have an old Nalgene that we put some solvent from the tank in, and soak/shake it for a minute or two. Shake/wipe dry and hit with some air, then another minute or two in a bottle with some denatured alcohol for the final clean and that stuff evaporates off it in a few min. Then the queso dip.
I just looked at UFO....$45msrp?!! Even at cost, that seems bonkers, but I guess it lasts.

Silca Super Secret Drip/Tru-Tension Tungsten All Weather/Ceramic Speed UFO Drip are all newer style wax lubes where the waxes in the formula are the same types as being used in Molten Speed Wax/Silca Hot Melt.

Because they are more highly refined/lower oil, they can all be cleaned by simply swishing the chain around in a few changes of hot water; the wax just melts out and floats in the water.

Maybe not as big an issue for a shop where you have solvent tanks anyway, and are likely filtering/recirculating that solvent, but for cleaning at home it’s really nice to be able to just clean with hot water instead of dealing with the cost and disposal of solvents.

[bagtagley]

The Hot Tub of Queso/Waxed Chain Thread

The initial clean is work

Doesn’t have to be. Similar to joetron, I shake in a jar of mineral spirits followed by a shake in a jar of alcohol. Easy peasy, and if you cap the containers you can reuse the juice, nearly infinitely if you’re willing to occasionally filter. I still use drip queso (Smoove), though.

As far as cleaning goes before a Re-Molten Speed Queso-ing, we have an old Nalgene that we put some solvent from the tank in, and soak/shake it for a minute or two. Shake/wipe dry and hit with some air, then another minute or two in a bottle with some denatured alcohol for the final clean and that stuff evaporates off it in a few min.

[XXX-er]

The initial clean is work, but probably work everyone should be doing because all lubes perform better/your chain will last longer if you remove the factory sludge.

It can be, I tried naptha ( white gas ) cuz there was a can in the shed ... works great

Take the chain off, put it on a piece of wire for ease of handling , coil chain into the bottom of a jam jar , pour in enough white gas ( naptha ) to cover the chain by an inch, no scrubbing is needed just let it sit over night in a jar with the lid on, in the am pull the chain out let it hang for a few minutes, the naptha will evap instantly and the chain will be 100 % clean/ dry


simple green is bad for soaking parts, as far as I know soaking in naptha has no ill effect on metal

white gas for your coleman stove cost is about 20$ a gallon so the same, naptha can be used > once, its flammmable so don't burn your garage down

[J. Barron DeJong]

It can be, I tried naptha ( white gas ) cuz there was a can in the shed ... works great

Take the chain off, put it on a piece of wire for ease of handling , coil chain into the bottom of a jam jar , pour in enough white gas ( naptha ) to cover the chain by an inch, no scrubbing is needed just let it sit over night in a jar with the lid on, in the am pull the chain out let it hang for a few minutes, the naptha will evap instantly and the chain will be 100 % clean/ dry


simple green is bad for soaking parts, as far as I know soaking in naptha has no ill effect on metal

white gas for your coleman stove cost is about 20$ a gallon so the same, naptha can be used > once, its flammmable so don't burn your garage down

Agree, Coleman fuel works great. I still followed up with an alcohol rinse just to be sure there wouldn’t be any residue left.

Regular simple green can cause hydrogen embrittlement, don’t leave your parts soaking in that. There is also Simple Green Extreme Aircraft, which won’t cause embrittlement and should be safe to soak parts in.