Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[skinipenem]

Ironically, the anti mtb arguments from equestrians and hikers sound remarkably similar to the anti Ebike arguments from mountain bikers.


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Quoted for truth.



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[evasive_MT]

Have you ever been hit by a descending rider? It happens to me every year. Freakin last year it was two guys from the same NICA team on different days. While I've never been creamed, I have had numerous encounters where guys finish their skid touching me or with me having to bail. It's changed how I act when climbing and made me super aware coming around blind spots on trails. That shit scares me on the bike. On a horse it would be terrifying. So, I hate horse crap and I hate the way they damage trails in the spring, or after any rain. But, we could be better about managing our image.

Not very relevant here. The plan they're litigating involves segregated trails. Any trails you'd imagine 'downhilling' on are bike-only. There will be some new shared-use trails on low-angle terrain that generally has long sightlines. Bikes are excluded from the historic road network where most equestrians currently ride.

[californiagrown]

I've never, in 30-ish years, been hit by a descending rider. If it's happening to you every year, I question the trails you're riding up.

And if horses are on popular multi use trails, they're going to need to exercise some situational awareness as well.

Pretty much. At some point, if that much conflict is happening to you, you really need to take a hard look at what you might be doing to attract that conflict.

Its pretty easy to recognize the corners with poor sight distance where conflict might happen while riding uphill, and choose the line where a descending rider wouldnt ride, or where they couldnt hold any speed. Its also pretty easy to avoid riding up popular descending trails, especially at high usage times. Common sense, and situational awareness go a long ways.

[toast2266]

Regardless of my gaperdom, I still say, we have our contingent of entitled dumbasses. Even if I am one of them.

Absolutely. Every group has its share of assholes, and mountain bikers are certainly no exception.

The difference is, when confronted with user conflict, mountain bikers tend to acknowledge that they need to better police their community, and perhaps make some changes to the trail system to reduce conflict. Equestrians, on the other hand, file lawsuits to keep everyone else off the trails. And in this particular case, they're filing a lawsuit to prevent the exact kind of changes to the trail system that would reduce conflict.

[climberevan]

Its pretty easy to recognize the corners with poor sight distance where conflict might happen while riding uphill, and choose the line where a descending rider wouldnt ride, or where they couldnt hold any speed. Its also pretty easy to avoid riding up popular descending trails, especially at high usage times. Common sense, and situational awareness go a long ways.

Huh? Do you never ride actual singletrack or bench-cut trails? We're not all riding on 6 foot wide paths where one can just stay off to the side and leave room for descending bros to blast past.

Courtesy and attention are required, and uphill has ROW. DH riders should stop, not just ride off to the side and make trails wider. Keep singletrack single!

But yes, uphill riders need to pay attention and be aware. On the very popular bi-directional trail near my house I often whistle or call out when approaching the many blind corners on sidehills, and I recognize that even if both people are being careful it's impossible to eliminate the risk of a head-on.

[Dantheman]

Pretty much. At some point, if that much conflict is happening to you, you really need to take a hard look at what you might be doing to attract that conflict.

Its pretty easy to recognize the corners with poor sight distance where conflict might happen while riding uphill, and choose the line where a descending rider wouldnt ride, or where they couldnt hold any speed. Its also pretty easy to avoid riding up popular descending trails, especially at high usage times. Common sense, and situational awareness go a long ways.

I don't think you appreciate the level of entitled and/or clueless douchebaggery that pervades Park City riding.

[ironhippy]

Ironically, the anti mtb arguments from equestrians and hikers sound remarkably similar to the anti Ebike arguments from mountain bikers.


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So you're saying they have a point.

[californiagrown]

Huh? Do you never ride actual singletrack or bench-cut trails? We're not all riding on 6 foot wide paths where one can just stay off to the side and leave room for descending bros to blast past.

yep i do. Though, I try and avoid the popular descents if i do, or take logging roads if they are an alternative. If i am stuck on a two-way singletrack i usually am super careful and try to stay out of the mainline (even on a 18" wide trail, there is going to be a mainline) and hug the uphill on benchcuts. Never had an issue or collision, but im also happy to drop a foot at a moments notice to get out of the way on the 1% of the trail where sightlines and hearing dont allow me to know if another rider is coming. But i can usually hear folks coming before i can see them, even on smooth flowy stuff.

Im not saying there arent asshole MTB folks, or everybody rides in control all the time at appropriate speeds. I'm saying that if these conflicts happen to you on a regular basis, it's past-time to look at what you are doing to attract these conflicts.

I don't think you appreciate the level of entitled and/or clueless douchebaggery that pervades Park City riding.

Fair point, i likely do not.

[bagtagley]

I don't think you appreciate the level of entitled and/or clueless douchebaggery that pervades Park City riding.

It's not limited to Park City, they're just early adopters. I worry because over the past few years we as a group have gained a lot of entitled users, but proportionally very few folks willing to fight for access.

[Canada1]

Absolutely. Every group has its share of assholes, and mountain bikers are certainly no exception.

The difference is, when confronted with user conflict, mountain bikers tend to acknowledge that they need to better police their community, and perhaps make some changes to the trail system to reduce conflict. Equestrians, on the other hand, file lawsuits to keep everyone else off the trails. And in this particular case, they're filing a lawsuit to prevent the exact kind of changes to the trail system that would reduce conflict.

Yes, this is more of a Sierra Club, no one should be allowed here situation. It's really all NIMBY. The reality is that if a horse is scitish, you could startle it from 50 yards away and they would still hate you for being there.

[Boissal]

It's not limited to Park City, they're just early adopters. I worry because over the past few years we as a group have gained a lot of entitled users, but proportionally very few folks willing to fight for access.

It's creeping down to the valley!! I was pedaling up Quarry trail last night, got to the only spot where there's only 1 manageable line (right before the power plant wood bridge). Couple guys are coming down and slow down to a crawl so I punch it uphill to get over the big rock... and dude decides to sneak between me and the trees. It's all gravel and polished granite in there and it's soaking wet so he gets sideways and slides into me like a confused crab. I try to twist myself out of the way and get brushed in the ribs by his handlebars. He stayed upright, I stayed upright, I just asked him WTF he was thinking, and he kept going. His buddy looked mortified, the 2 hikers who were watching the scene were shaking their heads...

Getting back to equestrians, had an amusing interaction with a couple of ladies last week climbing Cobblestone on the way to Flying Dog. I round a bend and there are 2 horses on the trail. Lady sees me and just blurts out "OH FUCK". OK... I was already off the bike hiking up the brushy side to give them room. I get well to the side and ask if that's enough. Oh fuck lady gives me a filthy look, her friend tells me I'm good. I figure I should warn them about the bull elk and 4 cows just around the next bend in case that's an issue for the horses. Oh fuck lady looks at me, gets all cross-eyed, and loudly proclaims "WELL FUCK". OK... guess she has limited vocabulary but I'm sure she got it. As she rides by I notice a potent booze smell and the fact that her friend is more than a bit embarrassed. Riding a horse hammered seems sketchy as fuck but what do I know. I got back on the trail and sure enough there were deep holes everywhere, cause what could be more fun than destroying a trail after the only rain we got this summer...

[Touring_Sedan]

"Cosmetic Wear"

[Falcon3]

"Cosmetic Wear"

It’s a road bike. Slap some AquaSeal on that and let er rip

[tellybele]

Or...let'r buck could apply here as well

[El Chupacabra]

I'm kinda annoyed that I have to buy yet another specialty tool just to change the chainring on a Shimano 12S crank.

The tool is only $8 on Amazon though, so at least there's that.