Ultimate Pin Binding Retention Showdown: ATK Raider Vs Salomon MTN

[Skip Dooley]

So, I've been a devotee of the Salomon MTN since it came out. I ski pretty hard with the toes unlocked 99% of the time, only locking out when a fall would mean death.. I had one pre-release on them this season while spinning off a side hit. It had me thinking. Maybe I should look into this ATK craze.

I've read through a lot of the ATK thread, and found some great info. But, I'm wondering if anyone has a direct comparison of the MTN to say the C Raider 12 or ATK Raider 13 Evo? These are probably about as heavy as I'd want to go. I'm just curious if people feel like they can go a little harder on the ATKs than the MTNs? Or, if it's about the same, I'll probably just stick to what has worked for the last 7 or so years.

[rod9301]

The reason the mtn has such good retention is that the toe springs are very strong.

Someone said that the atk springs are not as strong as the mtn, but i haven't compared them.

You could go to a shop that had both, put a boot in the toes and twist it. It will be pretty obvious

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[fleaches]

This is a few years old at this point and wouldn't have the new atk models

https://wildsnow.com/18803/comparo-t...er-g3-dynafit/

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[Benneke10]

Can't speak to the new Raider Evos, but there is no way that the C-Raider has has much retention as the MTN

[Skip Dooley]

This is a few years old at this point and wouldn't have the new atk models

https://wildsnow.com/18803/comparo-t...er-g3-dynafit/

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Thanks! I knew I saw something like this a while back and couldn't find it. Might get some Plum Guide toes off SkiMoCO and make a franken setup..
I love the MTN, just want a lil more juice for a certain set of skis..

[east or bust]

What about kingpin toes? 3 springs is better than 2?


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[zion zig zag]

I have a new pair of Raider 13 evos (Moment Skis branded) and have had two vertical pre releases from the heel. Which is two more than I ever had in the MTN. I turned the release setting up a couple of notches.

[mr_pretzel]

I have a new pair of Raider 13 evos (Moment Skis branded) and have had two vertical pre releases from the heel. Which is two more than I ever had in the MTN. I turned the release setting up a couple of notches.

You need to make sure there is no snow or ice on the freeride spacer, every run.

With the new adjustable ATK toe I’m sure it can reach the same retention or more than the MTN

[zion zig zag]

You need to make sure there is no snow or ice on the freeride spacer, every run.

With the new adjustable ATK toe I’m sure it can reach the same retention or more than the MTN

Ah, good point. I usually just spin the heel and click in and haven't looked at that.

[FloridaSnow]

I have a new pair of Raider 13 evos (Moment Skis branded) and have had two vertical pre releases from the heel. Which is two more than I ever had in the MTN. I turned the release setting up a couple of notches.

not just branded. They are physically different.

[Blaster]

I have a new pair of Raider 13 evos (Moment Skis branded) and have had two vertical pre releases from the heel. Which is two more than I ever had in the MTN. I turned the release setting up a couple of notches.

Sample size of just a few days on the evo freeraider 15 but I found their RVs a bit soft and turned things up 1.5 numbers from what I would use on the alpinists or felt was the equivalent of the mtn medium springs.

[zion zig zag]

not just branded. They are physically different.

Other than the built in toe shim?

[FloridaSnow]

Other than the built in toe shim?

nope. Lol. But that is a nice touch. I’ve seen more than one thread of “lost my shims” or “bought used and no shims”

[Cocximus]

What about kingpin toes? 3 springs is better than 2?


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better at packing snow under them.

[Westcoaster]

Sample size of just a few days on the evo freeraider 15 but I found their RVs a bit soft and turned things up 1.5 numbers from what I would use on the alpinists or felt was the equivalent of the mtn medium springs.

Definitely soft, probably related to the rolling heel pins. I think the mtn was known to have nonreproducible release characteristics, especially with the brakes, so not sure that high clamp force toes are preferable. For sure it's a good binding, just different philosophy.

Fwiw I've never had prerelease issues with old freeraider 14s nor new evo 15s, and did have a mysterious moving heeltrack issue with mtns.

[rod9301]

What about kingpin toes? 3 springs is better than 2?


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Actually the kingpin toe springs are pretty weak

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[rod9301]

Definitely soft, probably related to the rolling heel pins. I think the mtn was known to have nonreproducible release characteristics, especially with the brakes, so not sure that high clamp force toes are preferable. For sure it's a good binding, just different philosophy.

Fwiw I've never had prerelease issues with old freeraider 14s nor new evo 15s, and did have a mysterious moving heeltrack issue with mtns.

Could you explain the heeltrack issue?

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[Westcoaster]

I had a pre-released once where it was clear that the heel track had moved back. Could never reproduce the failure nor explain it, but am certain that there was movement.

[rod9301]

On my wife's mtn the heel moved back significantly that her boot came out of the heel, on the frozen, steep upper part of mini hall.

Put vibratite on her and mine bindings, the screw that moves the heel piece

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[Westcoaster]

On my wife's mtn the heel moved back significantly that her boot came out of the heel, on the frozen, steep upper part of mini hall.

Put vibratite on her and mine bindings, the screw that moves the heel piece

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Shit maybe it's a Tahoe thing ??????

[Yukonrider]

I skied a season on MTNs last year, and RT10s this year. My pick for best binding is the RT10 WITH the freeride spacer. The FR spacer makes all the difference in transferring power to edge, and happy feelings.

I think I prereleased once on both, I ran the RT10s at 10 DIN, their release felt a little soft, and I would much prefer the higher DIN model, but love the weight of the RT.

I know I'm not saying much about their release values, but the ATK's felt nicer than the MTN's in every way, less play, they didn't get sloppy wear in them like the MTN's, their toe lock is very positive. I only locked them once, when I was chopping in steps over a no fall zone.