50 years to the day

[Core Shot]

Just just checking in, wanted to say, with Americans still being held hostage, what a fuckimg disgrace so many of you are.

So far, Israel has the only plan for any of them to see the light of day again, dead or alive.

Yeah. Because 30,000 dead Palestinians aren’t enough.

Hamas sucks ass. The new Nazis.
But. Sorry. Hostages? Good luck. They’re probably dead already. So let’s keep murdering people in Rafa.

[leroy jenkins]

He lives in the far corners of his brain. A lonely, friendless life. We are all he has.

re: Racism. At Mt Rushmore I sat across the cafeteria table from a 12 yo boy who was there with his parents. He looked at me and said proudly "My daddy says that Obama is a nig.... " He was new at the game of being a racist and hadn't learned yet not to say it to strangers.

No, i have several devotees. Like that meth cult that mummified the woman in grand junction. We already have the Sacred Sleeping Bag picked out for me, but well see if steep and cheap has something more holy and sacred.

Yea, racism exists. Never said it doesn't. But your demand for it vastly outstrips any sort of supply, and its been plummeting for decades.

[jono]

Armchair genius says ‘There should be peace’, as though this has never occurred to Israelis or Palestinians, as if it's some fantastically original insight.

A moment of silence for the end of reason as we turn our eyes endlessly in search of "fantastically original insight" and more entertaining ideas.

This piece was posted last October and I can't see much that's changed. The truth is boring:

https://mo-husseini.medium.com/a-way...d-8d759d685239

[leroy jenkins]

Just just checking in, wanted to say, with Americans still being held hostage, what a fuckimg disgrace so many of you are.

So far, Israel has the only plan for any of them to see the light of day again, dead or alive.

Wait, israel has a plan for getting back the hostages? What is that plan? Can you tell me? And when are they going to impliment it? Cus nothign they are doing so far is in any way designed to get any hostages back. hell, they've killed hostages themselves, without any help from hamas.

[MultiVerse]

A moment of silence for the end of reason as we turn our eyes endlessly in search of "fantastically original insight" and more entertaining ideas.

This piece was posted last October and I can't see much that's changed. The truth is boring:

https://mo-husseini.medium.com/a-way...d-8d759d685239

I wouldn't say the truth is boring. I found the piece compelling. What is interesting about Mo Husseini's argument is how he presumes Hamas needs to go for his vision of a Palestinian state to be realized. Which circles back to the discussion on the previous page, "This state can’t be a puppet or a failed entity (like Hamas or the PA). It must be a genuinely democratic institution with a police force, true independence, and, most importantly, a responsibility for maintaining the peace that should be enshrined in its foundational constitution."

As an aside, Husseini touches on a universal truth that human conflicts are often most intense when the differences between groups are small. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet:
Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes

Mo Husseneini channeling Shakespeare: "I don’t know how to bridge the incredible divides of mistrust, how to silence the drums of war that have been beating for so long they’ve become the soundtrack at the world’s worst discotheque.

Because here’s the funny part of this entire conflict… I’ve never met two groups of people more similar than Israelis and Palestinians… Given the context of the conflict, it’s honestly sad how much more we are the same than we are different."

What I don't understand is why more people, like so many of the protesters for example, don't want Hamas to lose so Israelis and Palestinians can move forward with a non-Hamas Palestinian government arising from Hamas’s defeat?

[jono]

I wouldn't say the truth is boring. I found the piece compelling. What is interesting about Mo Husseini's argument is how he presumes Hamas needs to go for his vision of a Palestinian state to be realized. Which circles back to the discussion on the previous page, "This state can’t be a puppet or a failed entity (like Hamas or the PA). It must be a genuinely democratic institution with a police force, true independence, and, most importantly, a responsibility for maintaining the peace that should be enshrined in its foundational constitution."

As an aside, Husseini touches on a universal truth that human conflicts are often most intense when the differences between groups are small. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet:
Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes

Mo Husseneini channeling Shakespeare: "I don’t know how to bridge the incredible divides of mistrust, how to silence the drums of war that have been beating for so long they’ve become the soundtrack at the world’s worst discotheque.

Because here’s the funny part of this entire conflict… I’ve never met two groups of people more similar than Israelis and Palestinians… Given the context of the conflict, it’s honestly sad how much more we are the same than we are different."

What I don't understand is why more people, like so many of the protesters for example, don't want Hamas to lose so Israelis and Palestinians can move forward with a non-Hamas Palestinian government arising from Hamas’s defeat?

I think it might be the most straight forward statement of what we all know to be true that I've seen yet. Coming from his background it's very encouraging as a counterpoint to the militant "muslims" who say that forgiveness is not part of their religion ("we're not Christians" etc).

His central point is that the only way forward is to forget the past and focus on now and the future. That is easily interpreted as ignoring only the distant past, since the corrosive nature of that is more obvious. But it's the most recent past that hardest to let go of and there's no path forward without doing that.

In that context Hamas's defeat takes on a different definition based on a different necessity.

If there is ever a path forward it won't include 100% justice or retribution for October 7 or for all the dead Palestinian civilians. Defining defeat of the warmongers on both sides (hopefully politically in Israel) as complete annihilation rather than removing them from government and making them subject to just laws is a too common and unrealistic sticking point.

[leroy jenkins]

I wouldn't say the truth is boring. I found the piece compelling. What is interesting about Mo Husseini's argument is how he presumes Hamas needs to go for his vision of a Palestinian state to be realized. Which circles back to the discussion on the previous page, "This state can’t be a puppet or a failed entity (like Hamas or the PA). It must be a genuinely democratic institution with a police force, true independence, and, most importantly, a responsibility for maintaining the peace that should be enshrined in its foundational constitution."

As an aside, Husseini touches on a universal truth that human conflicts are often most intense when the differences between groups are small. Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet:
Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes

Mo Husseneini channeling Shakespeare: "I don’t know how to bridge the incredible divides of mistrust, how to silence the drums of war that have been beating for so long they’ve become the soundtrack at the world’s worst discotheque.

Because here’s the funny part of this entire conflict… I’ve never met two groups of people more similar than Israelis and Palestinians… Given the context of the conflict, it’s honestly sad how much more we are the same than we are different."

What I don't understand is why more people, like so many of the protesters for example, don't want Hamas to lose so Israelis and Palestinians can move forward with a non-Hamas Palestinian government arising from Hamas’s defeat?

This perhaps gets at the central misunderstanding for many people. I don't really think that hamas losing means palestine gets to be its own state. How would that happen? LIke, worst case scenario for the palestinian people is they are just killed en masse and driven from their homeland, best case scenario, is they get to live under israli rule.

is there really any reason to expect any different? At the very least, anyone at least somewhat reasonble should be able to understand why someone else could look at the mass bombing and all sorts of shit that the US would never allow its troops to do in iraq for instance, and have very little trust for the israelis to endorse a two party state AFTER they have destroyed palestine occupied the ruins, and no one has any leverage on them to get them to agree to anything.

[Cono Este]

Yeah. Because 30,000 dead Palestinians aren’t enough.

Hamas sucks ass. The new Nazis.
But. Sorry. Hostages? Good luck. They’re probably dead already. So let’s keep murdering people in Rafa.

Being a human shield sucks.

The faster you end a war, the sooner the suffering ends.

[MultiVerse]

I don't really think

Strap On spelled backwards is No Parts just like a leroy's thoughts

[leroy jenkins]

Strap On spelled backwards is No Parts just like a leroy's thoughts

so you don't have serious thoughts at all? You don't have any actual explanation for how isreal winning a war that seems primarily focused on destroying palestine ends up with palestine getting to be its own state when israel is absolutly opposed to that and once they've won this 'war' there will be zero leverage or motivation forhtem to recognize palestine as a state.

You've got no thoughts on that at all. its clear you are the one who doesn't think. but ok, keep cheerleading genocide because its best for the victims. Its like an abuser hitting their spouse saying 'this is for your own good'

[leroy jenkins]

Being a human shield sucks.

The faster you end a war, the sooner the suffering ends.

What exactly does this look like? What outcome of israel winning this 'war' leads to a good outcome for palestine? How could that happen? I'm not even arguing it just seems like an impossibility and I cannot imagine it, and I honestly do not believe you can either, if you really try to run through how it would actually go down.


Do you say the same thing while you beat your wife? "this is for your own good, its for the children!"

[MultiVerse]

so you don't have serious thoughts at all?

lol @ serious thoughts. All the answers to leroy's sippy cup childish thoughts are *always* covered in previous posts. Instead we get leroy saying the dumbest things, in thread after thread over and over again. What can anyone say? Ever since he posted that video of himself tangled in a massive shawl pretending to be a whale being dragged from the ocean he's been hard to ignore. Folks around still comment that it was traumatic to watch.

[Cono Este]

What exactly does this look like? What outcome of israel winning this 'war' leads to a good outcome for palestine? How could that happen? I'm not even arguing it just seems like an impossibility and I cannot imagine it, and I honestly do not believe you can either, if you really try to run through how it would actually go down.


Do you say the same thing while you beat your wife? "this is for your own good, its for the children!"

I’m divorced, and she beat me btw.

It doesn’t matter what you, or I think.


Anyway, I didn’t vote for Biden, you guys did. You bought the bombs. And until I see one person in here regret that decision, or at least critique the man, how can anyone take a bunch of hypocrites seriously?

[MultiVerse]

How can anyone take cono seriously when he was one of the biggest proponents of the IDF bombing campaign in this thread? To all the idiots like leroy and cono who view the conflict as a projection of their domestic political neuroses, the war could end TODAY if Hamas agreed to release all the hostages and surrender. Instead, Hamas is firing mortars at the Kerem Shalom aid crossing in order to further maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. Hamas is also attacking members of Fatah in Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas murders anyone they believe is "collaborating" with Israel. As long as Hamas is in power in Gaza, there is no chance for peace

[summit]

MV I don't think Cono was arguing for a ceasefire or a non-response. I will say he accurately worried early on that this conflict would achieve the Hamas/Iranian objective of furtheriing Israel's isolation and loss of international support.

[subtle plague]

MV I don't think Cono was arguing for a ceasefire or a non-response. I will say he accurately worried early on that this conflict would achieve the Hamas/Iranian objective of furtheriing Israel's isolation and loss of international support.

You are argueing in favor of coherent cono thoughts?

[J. Barron DeJong]

“This really does seem to be the case. I understand that third party negotiators have to deal with the leaders they have, not the leaders they wish they had. And it's not like Hamas's Yahya Sinwar is any great prize. But for a supposed ally, is there anyone in the world who's more of an asshole and less of a genuine friend than Benjamin Netanyahu?”

https://jabberwocking.com/benjamin-n...hu-is-no-ally/




https://x.com/glzradio/status/178770...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg




https://bsky.app/profile/oldsquida.b.../3kruexw3esq26


It doesn’t look like the guys in charge in Israel are looking to end the violence and secure the return of hostages.

If you want to argue that there can be no peace until Hamas is completely destroyed, fine. But Israeli leadership is not looking to stop the war for time being.

[MultiVerse]

It doesn’t look like the guys in charge in Israel are looking to end the violence and secure the return of hostages.

If you want to argue that there can be no peace until Hamas is completely destroyed, fine. But Israeli leadership is not looking to stop the war for time being.

The key thing left out in Jong's take is the original Axios source material which contradicts most of the claims in the twitter takes above. Key points:

"the U.S. believes Israel has engaged in the talks in good faith and that Israel's late April proposal was "the most forward leaning proposal to date. To secure a ceasefire, Hamas simply needs to release hostages. It's all mapped out."

So there were negotiations and a reported deal in which "Hamas announced on Monday that it accepted a ceasefire proposal given to it by Egypt and Qatar." But as it turns out, "When the Israelis read Hamas' response, they were surprised to see it contained "many new elements" that were not part of the previous proposal that Israel agreed on and that was presented to Hamas by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar ten days ago." "It looked like a whole new proposal," one official said.

More to the point, "The official said the U.S., Qatar and Egypt serve as guarantors for the hostage negotiations process but added that the U.S. didn't give any guarantees to Hamas about ending the war."

In any event, "The Israeli war cabinet said it will send a delegation to Cairo for talks with the Egyptians and Qatari mediators to discuss the new proposal."

https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/us-...easefire-talks

[summit]

JONG is a fucking dumbass.

"Hamas negotiated a deal with themselves and agreed to it on Israel's behalf, are dismayed Israel not onboard."

It's a fucking PR stunt... the kind a total fucking dumbass would gobble down like a bucket of dicks in the name of being "impartial."

[J. Barron DeJong]

JONG is a fucking dumbass.

"Hamas negotiated a deal with themselves and agreed to it on Israel's behalf, are dismayed Israel not onboard."

It's a fucking PR stunt... the kind a total fucking dumbass would gobble down like a bucket of dicks in the name of being "impartial."

Hamas negotiated a deal with the US, Egypt, and Quatar. US negotiators thought the final language was good. Israel didn’t send a delegation, so didn’t voice their concerns until after the deal was finalized and released.

[highangle]

MV I don't think Cono was arguing for a ceasefire or a non-response. I will say he accurately worried early on that this conflict would achieve the Hamas/Iranian objective of furtheriing Israel's isolation and loss of international support.

https://v.redd.it/6kbe3u4o9yyc1

[MultiVerse]

Hamas negotiated a deal with the US, Egypt, and Quatar. US negotiators thought the final language was good. Israel didn’t send a delegation, so didn’t voice their concerns until after the deal was finalized and released.

The idea that Hamas gets to make up its own deal, release it, and then call 'no take backs' i.e., Israel "didn’t voice their concerns until after the deal was finalized and released" is laughable. Not to mention Hamas initially agreed to hand over 33 living hostages only to change the terms to include dead bodies.

[summit]

JONG continues to have infinite credulity for things that make Israel look bad because he wants to be fair, even if those things means gulping down all the warm sticky spooge that he can gargle from Hamas's propaganda filtered down through other media and then selectively interpreted.

You could call him biased. Or your could call him stupid.

I call him blind enough to continue to believe in bullshit so long as it puts him in comfortably in the middle between position A, little to one side of reality, and position B, way the fuck off the deep end of bullshit. That's still deep into bullshit territory.

The truth is not always right in the middle. See also: Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, and Joseph Goebbels

[J. Barron DeJong]

I guess Biden is now pro-Hamas:



https://x.com/laraseligman/status/17...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[J. Barron DeJong]