Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

[hoarhey]

Heard mention of adjustment in technique to ski the matched radius camber aspect of the FR110’s, or 110’s in general.

Would any of you consider describing that adjustment in this thread?


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[arild]

Heard mention of adjustment in technique to ski the matched radius camber aspect of the FR110’s, or 110’s in general.

Would any of you consider describing that adjustment in this thread?


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I've only got experience with the FR110, which is more or less matched sidecut to reverse camber.

My key takeaway from these skis is that neutral is a great place to be. Which is more or less how we designed them to begin with. I think staying forward, pressuring the tips, is a very good recipe for over torquing the sidecut, and the ski overall is better matched to a dalbello lupo, compared to a genuine faux race boot. All in the forward lean, you see.

Once you get over that crap, and start driving from your ankles, you'll have a very good time. They can be ON if you want them to, but they're better as DD soft snow comrades. If you want ON all the time, get FL105s or 113s. In that order.

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[Shorty_J]

I've only got experience with the FR110, which is more or less matched sidecut to reverse camber.

My key takeaway from these skis is that neutral is a great place to be. Which is more or less how we designed them to begin with. I think staying forward, pressuring the tips, is a very good recipe for over torquing the sidecut, and the ski overall is better matched to a dalbello lupo, compared to a genuine faux race boot. All in the forward lean, you see.

Once you get over that crap, and start driving from your ankles, you'll have a very good time. They can be ON if you want them to, but they're better as DD soft snow comrades. If you want ON all the time, get FL105s or 113s. In that order.

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Is that something that you think is sidecut to rocker profile matched specific?

I ask because I was skiing my fully rockered bmt 122 today (mounted around -8 or -9) and I'm not sure if they are similarly matched but they kind of want to be driven in the shovel even at +1cm from recommended.

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[forumskier]

I was driving the 19Xcm FR110s when I was skiing them. I A/Bed them with 191 Katana 108s thanks to Bry, and kept the same stance. I put 5 hard runs on FR110s all through blacks or doubles at speed, but take my words with a grain of salt cuz 5 runs. I felt a decent amount of tail on the FR110s while driving them, but that didn't stop me from having an absolute blast. I think I preferred them to Katana 108s, but both are great skis.

The tails on the FR110 felt more noticeable more often than 3D radius on Katana 108s, but I'd prefer FR110s for predictability. I wannnnt

[arild]

Is that something that you think is sidecut to rocker profile matched specific?

I ask because I was skiing my fully rockered bmt 122 today (mounted around -8 or -9) and I'm not sure if they are similarly matched but they kind of want to be driven in the shovel even at +1cm from recommended.

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Yeah, or at least in this case, a tighter sidecut radius (<24mR) with a matched reverse camber. Now, of course you can drive them, but feathering shin input is more rewarding, imo, and again, throwing too much weight forward is a pretty surefire way of engaging the front part of the sidecut (and the corresponding reverse camber) into an oversteer situation. Super responsive skis, and requires a bit more finesse to ski really fast than say the FL105.

Now, there are a few confounding variables here:
Mount point
Forward lean
Skier weight

Mine are mounted at -7.5/-8 - can't quite recall.
They're more accepting of a classic forward driving stance when I'm in Lupos(more upright), compared to skiing in Raptors (more racelike). I weigh 92kg, so just north of 200lbs.

Helpful or not?

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[Shredeagle]

One super fun thing I found was steep chute skiing in smooth snow. This was on the Headwaters at Big Sky. I got to thinking about how they are already bent into the shape a normal ski would be when it was fully engaged in a carve. I just stood straight up and tipped them a bit side to side while arcing nice carves down the chute with no effort. Didn’t need to worry about them hooking up with the reverse camber. It was really cool, especially after watching people make exhausting looking jump turns to slides down the same line.

I adjusted my boots to have as little forward lean as possible which I thought helped.

As has been said a lot of times these are a ridiculous amount of fun in soft trees. Lightning fast turns, double a few moguls, shut it down instantly. Def found myself skiing more of this style terrain than I had in the past just because it was so awesome.

They were the ultimate ski when I hit an 8 inch day at Alta(1.5 inches of water). So awesome in the tight spine lines in eagles nest and under supreme chair. I did switch to a different pair of skis for the last hour for making huge turns down Alf’s. That isn’t so much their sweet spot.

I spent too much time skiing them in hard snow and chopped up hard crud. They are ass in these conditions-don’t bother. The lack of camber just transfers all the bumps straight to you body. Painful. I apparently forgot the soft snow part of soft snow gymkhana. Ha.


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[Shorty_J]

Yeah, or at least in this case, a tighter sidecut radius (<24mR) with a matched reverse camber. Now, of course you can drive them, but feathering shin input is more rewarding, imo, and again, throwing too much weight forward is a pretty surefire way of engaging the front part of the sidecut (and the corresponding reverse camber) into an oversteer situation. Super responsive skis, and requires a bit more finesse to ski really fast than say the FL105.

Now, there are a few confounding variables here:
Mount point
Forward lean
Skier weight

Mine are mounted at -7.5/-8 - can't quite recall.
They're more accepting of a classic forward driving stance when I'm in Lupos(more upright), compared to skiing in Raptors (more racelike). I weigh 92kg, so just north of 200lbs.

Helpful or not?

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I think what you're saying makes sense, but I'm still wondering if it's a matched sidecut to rocker profile thing.

It could also be the realively less tip and tal taper in the FR where the bmt 122 has quite a bit of taper, and could also be the less pintail in the FR vs the BMT.

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[arild]

I think what you're saying makes sense, but I'm still wondering if it's a matched sidecut to rocker profile thing.

It could also be the realively less tip and tal taper in the FR where the bmt 122 has quite a bit of taper, and could also be the less pintail in the FR vs the BMT.

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The reverse camber of the BMT122 is pretty low rise/gradual, right? If so, that would make a lot of sense the way you describe them wanting to be driven, even though you're pretty far forward on them.

And yes, the tapers of those are about double, both tip and tail, compared to the 110, but I think it's more of a pintail thing, as you suggest- the BMTs are, at least on paper (sorry, haven't skied them, unfortunately) some of the most directional and pinned skis out there, at least talking in terms of the tip/tail width relationship, which usually, ime, isn't very conducive to very upright stance skiing. Depends a bit on where the sidecut center/rec mount is, though.

Cheers,
A

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[Mustonen]

Haven’t skied the 110s yet, but have plenty of time on “matched” camber skis. I think it’s more to do with degree of full reverse and/or tips and tails not engaging until you’re in 3d snow or fully angulated than any particular magic in matching radii and camber… but anyways.

My technique adjustment was mostly adopting more of an always stacked attitude and using far less hip/waist articulation, especially at the beginning and end of a turn. Once the turn/edge is locked in I can separate upper body and lower body, but otherwise I had better experiences staying a little more compact with my skis more under my upper body. Skis with more radius than camber can be engaged and loaded up with hips down only, but that’s something I couldn’t do confidently or dynamically with Rens et al. It was a different and super fun thing that those called for.

Also, steering inputs varied quite a bit. Stronger steering but less of it, if that makes sense. They go where you point and if you don’t point they’re more apt to go wherever.

[ASmileyFace]

^couldnt have said it better myself. 100% echo this

Out of curiosity, what’re your main low tide and pow skis? Working on creating a 3 ski quiver with this as the middle ski. I think pow ski will be Jeff 118 but can’t get the low tide ski figured out. Tried dw104 this year and didn’t love it


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I really like the idea of the three ski quiver. That is how I am trying to build mine out at least. Three ski BC quiver, three ski inbounds... with one or two weirdos in reserve. In reality, my quiver looks more like n+1 without a lot of sense lol.

I don't have a low tide DD right now but am pondering what ski to put in that place. I really liked the MFree 108 (was my DD two seasons ago) and was thinking MFree 99 to replicate that decent edge hold when you need it, loose when you need it, but chargy-lite feeling the 108 does so well, but am not convinced the 99 is the right choice. What HL ski fits that bill ~90 underfoot? All the RC skis are probably too much for me personally and I don't love -10 mount points.

My pow ski is the 184cm Aysm BG. I love this ski for the kind of pow skiing we do mid winter in Silverton. Lots of tight trees and weird chokes, but occasionally big wide open alpine charging. This ski handles all of that really well. I haven't been on it in over a year so we will see how I like it next year once I can A&B it vs the FR100. I picked up one of the BC Swallowtail 120s this year, but never had a chance to mount it unfortunately. That ski looked dialed. If I like it as much as I think I will for the backcountry, I have a feeling the BGs will be on their way out for a FR120 instead.

[Marshal Olson]

I really like the idea of the three ski quiver. That is how I am trying to build mine out at least. Three ski BC quiver, three ski inbounds... with one or two weirdos in reserve. In reality, my quiver looks more like n+1 without a lot of sense lol.

I don't have a low tide DD right now but am pondering what ski to put in that place. I really liked the MFree 108 (was my DD two seasons ago) and was thinking MFree 99 to replicate that decent edge hold when you need it, loose when you need it, but chargy-lite feeling the 108 does so well, but am not convinced the 99 is the right choice. What HL ski fits that bill ~90 underfoot? All the RC skis are probably too much for me personally and I don't love -10 mount points.

My pow ski is the 184cm Aysm BG. I love this ski for the kind of pow skiing we do mid winter in Silverton. Lots of tight trees and weird chokes, but occasionally big wide open alpine charging. This ski handles all of that really well. I haven't been on it in over a year so we will see how I like it next year once I can A&B it vs the FR100. I picked up one of the BC Swallowtail 120s this year, but never had a chance to mount it unfortunately. That ski looked dialed. If I like it as much as I think I will for the backcountry, I have a feeling the BGs will be on their way out for a FR120 instead.

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[Shorty_J]

The reverse camber of the BMT122 is pretty low rise/gradual, right? If so, that would make a lot of sense the way you describe them wanting to be driven, even though you're pretty far forward on them.

And yes, the tapers of those are about double, both tip and tail, compared to the 110, but I think it's more of a pintail thing, as you suggest- the BMTs are, at least on paper (sorry, haven't skied them, unfortunately) some of the most directional and pinned skis out there, at least talking in terms of the tip/tail width relationship, which usually, ime, isn't very conducive to very upright stance skiing. Depends a bit on where the sidecut center/rec mount is, though.

Cheers,
A

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Actually the rocker profile on the 122 is a departure from the low-slung siblings of other BMTs and they have a pretty pronounced rocker profile. From what I've seen they actually look somewhat similar to the FR110 but I haven't seen those in person so I'm not sure.

I'll try to remember to post a pic some time.

Edit: added a pic.

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[arild]

Hah, cool. That's actually more intune with the R family of profiles (r120/110/105), so the fr will have more splay in both ends.

R105s on the left, FR110s on the right.

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[SkiJitsu]

Heard mention of adjustment in technique to ski the matched radius camber aspect of the FR110’s, or 110’s in general.

Would any of you consider describing that adjustment in this thread?


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All my other skis are -10 to -12 mounts and when I got into steep (>40*) runs I was struggling with feeling like I was going over the handle bars. The advice Marshal shared with me was: try opening your feet just like 4” instead of “thinking” about stance and weighting and such. I find that just opening up a little gets the weighting right and gives the right stance naturally.

For carving I found that leaning hard into my boots to pressure the tips before tipping the ski over didn’t really work on this ski like it does more traditional skis. I had to really focus on early edging and rolling my feet over. Especially focusing on leading with the inside leg pinky toe. This actually made me a better skier on all my other skis too.

[meepmoop24]

Anyone have a comparison of these versus the Moment Meridian?

I love the Meridian but I think that adding some weight to it could make it even better. I picked up the Line BO104 this year and that was quite a hefty ski, but I also really liked it because it smoothed everything out.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Anyone have a comparison of these versus the Moment Meridian?

I love the Meridian but I think that adding some weight to it could make it even better. I picked up the Line BO104 this year and that was quite a hefty ski, but I also really liked it because it smoothed everything out.

A touch less quick but much more damp. I think it’s got a touch better edge hold as well.

[Marshal Olson]

The advice Marshal shared with me was: try opening your feet just like 4” instead of “thinking” about stance and weighting and such. I find that just opening up a little gets the weighting right and gives the right stance naturally.

Really glad to hear that tip helped unlock them for you!!!

[meepmoop24]

A touch less quick but much more damp. I think it’s got a touch better edge hold as well.

Would the 186 FR110 be about equivalent to the 187 Meridian?

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Would the 186 FR110 be about equivalent to the 187 Meridian?

In what way?

Length wise, yes, they are about the same in a tape pull.

[eSock]

Really glad to hear that tip helped unlock them for you!!!

What does "opening your feet" mean?

[hoarhey]

What does "opening your feet" mean?

I’m guessing to make sure your feet are apart that much (4”). Widen your stance so that there are 4” between your feet


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[Core Shot]

^^^ maybe ironic.
But I found on the FR110 I needed to close my stance.
Been wide for decades. FR liked it closer. Not boot touching weirdo monoskiing.
That and equal weighting as if you were in powder even if it is cut up already

Unless you’re trying to carve. In which case go super wide and extreme angulation. Gorilla turns.

[Sylvan]

Gorilla turns.

Love me some gorilla turns.

[arild]

^^^ maybe ironic.
But I found on the FR110 I needed to close my stance.
Been wide for decades. FR liked it closer. Not boot touching weirdo monoskiing.
That and equal weighting as if you were in powder even if it is cut up already

Unless you’re trying to carve. In which case go super wide and extreme angulation. Gorilla turns.

Super fun to do!

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