Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[Danno]

Think about if something happens, you could be responsible/liable, along with the mother, for giving permission!?!?

He's giving permission for his son to spend the night at the son's GF's house. Not to any drinking and drugs or what not. What could he be liable for?

[TahoeJ]

Think about if something happens, you could be responsible/liable, along with the mother, for giving permission!?!?

Huh? The kid is 17 not 11.

Mustonen - remember being a teenager? You’re gonna do what you want to do, one way or another. My senior year of high school I’d often sleep over at my girlfriend’s house when her parents were out town for the weekend and likewise they fully approved it and actually felt better knowing I’d be there. Not a big deal.

[The SnowShow]

^^^ FWIW, I’m not mocking them…it’s more of an observation. My kid mainly focuses on one sport per season and then skiing in the winter/spring. Typically that’s 2 practices a week and 1 game, which is not bad and fun. But the people I’m talking about have kids (ages around 7-12) in multiple sports overlapping each other for most of the year. They spend all their time complaining about the schedule and how every weekend and weekday is chaos with multiple practices/games every day after school on different areas of the city but also act like they’re the best for doing this and say “omg, you have so much time and have it so easy”. It’s fucking annoying.

[Buzzworthy]

Apparently not a fantastic or particularly stable home situation, which feels a lot like me just being judgmental.

Separating spidey sense gut intuition from unfair biases is a real bitch. And that probably tells me most of what I need to know. On to making sure mom really is ok with turning her home into a teenaged den of iniquity.

First off you’re doing awesome. Respect. You’ve clearly raised a good kid. But remember that. And that he’s 17. Any control you think you may have really isn’t there. He’s making his own decisions and you’ve spent his life helping him to form said decisions. Sounds like a win from what I’ve read.

Don’t know if this is your time to let go or not, but if now isn’t it, it’s coming real soon. You’re literally on the edge.

Do you trust your job you’ve done or not?
That’s what you’re struggling with.

I look forward to hearing the aftermath.

[fatnslow]

^^^ FWIW, I’m not mocking them…it’s more of an observation. My kid mainly focuses on one sport per season and then skiing in the winter/spring. Typically that’s 2 practices a week and 1 game, which is not bad and fun. But the people I’m talking about have kids (ages around 7-12) in multiple sports overlapping each other for most of the year. They spend all their time complaining about the schedule and how every weekend and weekday is chaos with multiple practices/games every day after school on different areas of the city but also act like they’re the best for doing this and say “omg, you have so much time and have it so easy”. It’s fucking annoying.

It's can be VERY annoying but it's a slippery slope and one can find themselves in the middle of it very easily these days. I never complained because my kids didn't ask to be born and if they wanted to work hard at something they loved I helped them in the process by being a chauffeur and fry cook.

[yeahman]

It's true kids are going to do what they want to do when they're 17, we all know that. But as a parent do you want to sanction it? That's a tough call IMO. You can still say no and explain why. Kids respect being told no sometimes more than being told yes.

If it's a security issue where they don't want their girl staying alone in the house, maybe invite her to stay at your house?

When they're 18 then it's their call. But 17 isn't 18. What's the age of consent in your state? That could play into the decision too.

I would not give permission for my 17 yo daughter to have her boyfriend sleep over if we were gone, nor would I give permission for her to sleep at his house.

[Buzzworthy]

Forgot to add to the last message on the judgement part of the family. My conservative parents did that to a girl I really felt I loved and to this day I still think they had no business looking down their nose. Every family has struggles that we really don’t know much about. We judge what tiny fraction we actually see of their lives. It’s too easy to judge from afar.

[Garbowski]

I have the opposite problem- my kids don't want to do shit. Even when they do, they will hate it and we force them to finish out the season or whatever. We've tried everything but they just don't like organized activities it seems. One kid was always a top player, but the younger one is clearly not an athlete. We definitely do feel lucky talking to overscheduled parents, but I feel like they are missing out on what was a big part of my life.

I've realized their lives are not going to be like yours, no matter what you do. No way I would have even asked to sleep over at a girlfriends', but times change- there's no real reason to say no.

[yeahman]

there's no real reason to say no.

Yes there is. It's called boundaries, and kids need them, crave them even. Being the "cool" parent isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ultimately kids don't respect that, even though they think it's what they want.

[Buzzworthy]

Yes there is. It's called boundaries, and kids need them, crave them even. Being the "cool" parent isn't all it's cracked up to be. Ultimately kids don't respect that, even though they think it's what they want.

It’s not about being cool. I never cared once about that.

It’s about respect and that you have it for them. You guided their decisions and still do, but you also let them take the lead. And hope to dog you did a great job as a parent.

Boundaries? Discuss those with your kid at 17 and come to a mutual decision. They will then “think you’re cool” if that’s what your thing is.

[SchralphMacchio]

New developments indicate that this is a party that mom and gf are planning for him. If the birthday party present includes an empty house and her daughter, well….

Man, TGR dads here are getting soft in our old age. None of you yet bothered to comment about the prospect that the birthday present could include empty house daughter ... AND mom? <wink>

<actually maybe Mustonen should really confirm that mom is going to be out of town>

<rofl>

...

Seriously, it sounds like you and your boy have a good trusting relationship with open communication. I'm sure whatever you decide you will discuss boundaries and tell him trust him to adhere to them. I aspire to have the same with my kids as they get older.

[fatnslow]

Man, TGR dads here are getting soft in our old age. None of you yet bothered to comment about the prospect that the birthday present could include empty house daughter ... AND mom? <wink>

<actually maybe Mustonen should really confirm that mom is going to be out of town>

<rofl>

.
Seriously, it sounds like you and your boy have a good trusting relationship with open communication. I'm sure whatever you decide you will discuss boundaries and tell him trust him to adhere to them. I aspire to have the same with my kids as they get older.

This was my thought. The kid was up front and honest about the situation. 17 year old me would have just told my parents I'm staying at a friend's house and banged away all weekend without a rubber.

I had someone I know who's kid always had his gf friend stay the night and his only gripe was his kid was getting laid more than him.

[californiagrown]

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. Its been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. Its been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

[alias_rice]

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. Its been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. Its been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

Those can be rough years, especially if you have a busy work schedule. I am not sure how close you live to where you recreate, but what helps me is changing a bit of my outlook on how long I need to be gone. For example, instead of loading up the bike and driving 30 minutes to do a 2+ hour ride, I'll instead just bang out a quick hour long ride on the trails 5 minutes from home. I used to do a lot of desert canyoneering where I would leave Friday morning and come home late Sunday night. Now I stay closer to home and leave Saturday morning and come home Sunday early afternoon. You just kind of have to adjust your expectations on what "getting outdoors" means.

Don't forget to put in the work now with the kids to get them loving the outdoors. They can eventually turn into your best ski/hike/bike partners.

[406]

Try to set up a 4 day work week or 4 day every other week. Bike commuting around 1 time per week. Like mentioned above, MTB rides near home. Are what I do.

I need to start some in office/lunch workouts.

The guilt part is tough for me too. I tell myself good for kids to have time away from a parent. And to make sure time together is quality.

[SchralphMacchio]

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. Its been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. Its been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

We have a similar but inverted situation at home; I don’t work as my wife’s income is enough for our family, but she has a busy and stressful job (being a pediatrician means that she has one of the few jobs where little kids and babies dying at work actually happens). I haven’t had a paying job since our daughter was born 5 years ago, and when our son turned 2.5 I had contemplated looking for part time work but found a variety of impediments as the primary domestic parent who is responsible for maintaining and cooking all of our food, shuttling the kids to and fro, keeping the dog happy, piles of laundry, upkeep on all of our house stuff (and outdoors gear), all trip and travel prep, etc. It also was challenging to try to replace some of my wife’s income to allow her to work less, in this local market I would have to work 4 hours for every 1 that she does unless I went back to full time remote work in my old industry.

All that said, my wife said that probably in this period before both kids are in public school, I should maybe give up on work and just focus on what I can do to make her non working time really high quality, so I run errands for her, I do what I can so that she can go to work or social functions during the week, I take both kids somewhere when she needs focus time, I prep all of our day trips or weekend trips so that she doesn’t have to put much mental burden into it. I can’t say that it’s a perfect situation but it’s where we are at, and how we are thinking about it.

We also mostly only do kid weekend social engagements with parents that we really like or are also ski/bike parents. Grandma is also game to watch both kids while we bike or ski as parents. That allows us to do more biking and skiing, but has the negative effect of bubble reinforcement in terms of how our kids will grow up. It’s not perfect, it’s just how we are coping.

[phatty]

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. Its been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. Its been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

Mornings become your friend. Get up and out early. When my kids were little, I did lots of early morning rides/hikes /golf. Would not have had any if it wasn't for mornings. The full family skied together, so that wasn't an issue.

Key is to make sure your wife has time for what she wants to do as well. Also make sure you talk about why you need the time and always thank her for letting you get out.

[fatnslow]

[QUOTE=SchralphMacchio;7079465]We have a similar but inverted situation at home; I don’t work as my wife’s income is enough for our family, but she has a busy and stressful job (being a pediatrician means that she has one of the few jobs where little kids and babies dying at work actually happens). I haven’t had a paying job since our daughter was born 5 years ago, and when our son turned 2.5 I had contemplated looking for part time work but found a variety of impediments as the primary domestic parent who is responsible for maintaining and cooking all of our food, shuttling the kids to and fro, keeping the dog happy, piles of laundry, upkeep on all of our house stuff (and outdoors gear), all trip and travel prep, etc. It also was challenging to try to replace some of my wife’s income to allow her to work less, in this local market I would have to work 4 hours for every 1 that she does unless I went back to full time remote work in my old industry.

All that said, my wife said that probably in this period before both kids are in public school, I should maybe give up on work and just focus on what I can do to make her non working time really high quality, so I run errands for her, I do what I can so that she can go to work or social functions during the week, I take both kids somewhere when she needs focus time, I prep all of our day trips or weekend trips so that she doesn’t have to put much mental burden into it. I can’t say that it’s a perfect situation but it’s where we are at, and how we are thinking about it.

We also mostly only do kid weekend social engagements with parents that we really like or are also ski/bike parents. Grandma is also game to watch both kids while we bike or ski as parents. That allows us to do more biking and skiing, but has the negative effect of bubble reinforcement in terms of how our kids will grow up. It’s not perfect, it’s just how we are coping.[/QUOTE

I took a step back professional when our kids were early grade school which cost us a few bucks but now they are all grown I don't regret it for a second. We didn't miss any meals and the attention they received as youngsters didn't hurt their progress becoming good people.
My sister/BIL did the same thing as you with two young kids. They tried dual work/daycare for a few years and just said fuck it and he retired early as a research scientist to be a stay at home dad.

[HappyCamper]

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. Its been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. Its been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

It was pretty hard for me to adjust - especially after the second kid arrived. I take them with me now in the mountains and that has been nice - but I've become a scheduling wizard at finding a few hours here and there were I can do selfish-dad things. Finding things to do locally helped even if it wasn't the mountains. I joined a group of dads who meet up at a bouldering gym in the evenings - and that was a bit of a lifesaver when we were at max parenting time suck.

[carlh]

It’s a rough time. I had a very sick wife for a few years while my son was little and it was basically survival mode of just get things done. Sneak in some sanity on the margins, I bought a cargo bike to do daycare drop offs and the commute and fit in some exercise. Mac Ride MTB rides are also a win, look for opportunities to get outside with the kid even if it’s not gnar.

It gets better as they get older, I skied 25 days last winter with my now 7yo and am getting him into MTB too.
I also echo find other family’s that the kids can play outside and you do something fun.

Since very early adulthood my healthy coping mechanisms have been based around getting outdoors, usually in the mountains to ski/hike/bike/climb/fish/etc. I knew my time would be more limited when having a kid because id want to hang out with him and take care of him, etc. But the thing i didnt count on was all the additional time i would have to spend traveling to family so they can see him, or attending playdates/bday parties etc. It seems like atleast 1 weekend day is always preplanned playdate/family, and the other is spent just trying to bang out errands/chores/office work. It’s been a tough deal that as stress in my life has increased significantly, the available time to pursue coping activities has dramatically reduced. It’s been weeks since ive had the opportunity to go recreate, and looking ahead itll be at least another few weeks to my next opportunity. And dipping out on my kid and family responsiblities to go recreate in the mountains leaves me feeling guilty and not renewed/refreshed, so it feels like im just always waiting for the rare opportunity when the stars align.

[Boissal]

but I've become a scheduling wizard at finding a few hours here and there were I can do selfish-dad things. Finding things to do locally helped even if it wasn't the mountains. I joined a group of dads who meet up at a bouldering gym in the evenings - and that was a bit of a lifesaver when we were at max parenting time suck.

This is the hardest thing for me at the moment. I have never dealt with this level of time constraint, and have always considered a sub-2 hours bike ride as not worth it. The thought of going on a tour for less than a full day is also foreign to me. I need to change my attitude quick cause I'm getting fatter and more frustrated by the day. Used to love the climbing gym, need to get back in there, it's great for a quick outing.

[Touring_Sedan]

This is the hardest thing for me at the moment. I have never dealt with this level of time constraint, and have always considered a sub-2 hours bike ride as not worth it. The thought of going on a tour for less than a full day is also foreign to me. I need to change my attitude quick cause I'm getting fatter and more frustrated by the day. Used to love the climbing gym, need to get back in there, it's great for a quick outing.

I think that shift is the most difficult for most of us in this thread. I used to grab the single speed and crank out 4-5 hours in Park City, now I grab the full squish and crank out an hour in Draper. It gets easier. I tell myself that I've had those epic days and while they defined me then, they don't need to define me now. Now I define myself with how I manage the challenge of raising two kids, being a loving spouse, and holding down a stressful yet fulfilling job. Compared to that, touring all day or getting in 5K on the bike is fucking easy. I'm on ride 101 for the year so far, but I wouldn't call any of the rides "epic." They bring me joy and peace none the less and instead of being capped of with a beer, it's capped off with coming home to a full, happy house.

[Mofro261]

At the other end, lil Ms M. graduated UofU last week w honors and went through ceremonies, keynote speaker was Hidden Peak.

[MarcusBrody]

This is the hardest thing for me at the moment. I have never dealt with this level of time constraint, and have always considered a sub-2 hours bike ride as not worth it. The thought of going on a tour for less than a full day is also foreign to me. I need to change my attitude quick cause I'm getting fatter and more frustrated by the day. Used to love the climbing gym, need to get back in there, it's great for a quick outing.

How old is the kid? When mine was super small, I just strapped him to my chest and went out to the woods with him and the dog for hours. Let my wife get some sleep. I couldn't bike, but I stashed a rake and shovel up there and slowly but surely built a mini-trail network in the woods by my house (owned by my employer). My son couldn't sleep worth a damn, but somehow strapped to my chest while I raked, shoveled, moved logs and stones, etc. the kid would be out cold for hours. It felt like an investment and once he wasn't coming on the morning dog walks, I would bike the trails I built with the dog. They weren't long, but just getting to ride regularly made me feel still connected.

Similarly, I would drive around with him in the car to get him to sleep at times. I was always looking for new woods/trails/etc. that might not be really developed/advertised. Then we'd go back later. Half the places we escaped to for outdoors time during the pandemic lockdowns were places I found while driving around. And often places I found looking for an out of the way dead end to jump out and pee after caffeinating heavily as I needed somewhere I could leave the car running so my kid wouldn't wake up.

I definitely understand you. I certainly had feelings of "I want my life back" for a period. Keeping some form of engagement really helped me keep things together mentally even if I wasn't getting out on long rides/hikes/ski days. And it's gotten a lot more fun now that my son is a bit older (just turned 8). Now he skis, mountain bikes, hikes and that's a lot of fun.

That being said, I am sitting here recovering from a vasectomy. I have absolutely no desire to go through the early stages again.

[schuss]

Yeah, I'm with everyone else - it was only when both my kids were into public school age that I finally got somewhat "normal" time back for myself. Even then, it's a balance as my wife's objectives (hiking) and mine (climbing/skiing) aren't typically kid-friendly yet, so we have to swap quite often on weekend duty. That said, starting to get the kiddos into some of our sports, so hopefully we can all do things soon.