Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

[Dantheman]

and I personally don't want 60g of pure sugar.

Not sure if serious.

[climberevan]

Not sure if serious.

Yeah... Maybe go ahead and check the ingredients in Skratch and get back to us on that one.

The amount you want to eat after a workout depends on how long/hard it was and how depleted you are. It could range from 20g to 60+g. But I don't think you'd go to far wrong with 50g of sugar and 10g or so of protein (or just the sugar, since the protein isn't doing much for you in that particular scenario--you can just get it later if you prefer).

Remember, you don't get "tha diabeetus" from eating sugar while or immediately after you are working out hard; you get it when you are fat and drinking soda all day while sitting still.

[climberevan]

Ok, I did it for him.

[smmokan]

Yeah, I get it and understand the concept of recovery. But I *personally* don’t want to down pure sugar every ride or workout. That would get really old after… probably one time.

[Dantheman]

Oh, so you mean something with flavoring? There's lots of ways to do that on the cheap.

[Tailwind]

I’m realizing that I’ve started running a slower cadence over the last 5-6 years. I mountain bike around 600-700 hours per year but mostly 14-15 hour weeks during bike season and I’ll ski mid winter.

I think my default cadence these days is around 70-75. Most rides I don’t shift from that or hit higher cadences often.

Is it a good idea for me to do some higher cadence spinning?

I have a few 100k races this year but I’m mainly trying to do the Kokopelli in about 14 hours and a quick time from Molas to Durango on the Colorado trail.

Last night I did a 95 cadence ride on my trainer for about 50 minutes (about 70-75% of ftp) and my main take away ways “yeah that felt really different”. It wasn’t hard or easy just a different type of fatigue.

Any thoughts?

[Iowagriz]

I was always told that high cadence will get the most out of your aerobic capacity, and low cadence will work the muscles more. So, we were taught to spin as much as possible until tired and then muscle it home.

Not sure if those theories are still valid, but it makes sense to me when I ride. 80rpm is my comfort zone.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I read a study a few years back that said the higher the riders power output the more efficient they were at higher cadences.

Pure speculation on my part, the study didn’t say this: my thinking is that just the act of spinning your legs quickly takes work (think riding on a trainer with no resistance, but spinning at 90-100 rpm). For a rider who can’t maintain much power, riding at high cadence is using a significant chunk of their capacity just to spin their legs quickly. Whereas for a rider whose max sustained output capacity is high, the act of just spinning itself is using up a smaller share of the available total, so they aren’t as limited by that and can take advantage of the other efficiency gains that can come from a higher cadence.

I think this probably translates to an individual rider riding at different intensities as well - no point spinning at 95 rpm if you’re just trying to ride at a relaxed pace.

[gramboh]

I like 5x5s at 95-100% FTP with 1 minute recovery. 4x8 with 2 minutes works well also. Pick one, do it twice a week, and stick to it for a while instead of mixing it up and you'll likely have good results.

"Threshold" workouts can be progressed by
1. Altering Intensity
2. Increasing Work duration
3. Decreasing Rest duration

So,
5 x 5min at 95% FTP with 5 minutes recovery is less difficult than with 1 min of rest.
2x15 min at 95% with 5 min recovery is more difficult than 5x5min @ 95% with 1 min rest.
2x15 min at 95% with 20s surges to 105% FTP every 2 min is harder than the straight 2x15 min.

I very rarely recommend straight sub-threshold efforts (e.g. 95% FTP). I think it's an important skill the riders lean to push above threshold and then learn to recover at 95% because this is more reflective of how we use this workload in an event. So, I almost always recommend surges or an over / under style of workout prescription.

Thanks guys, super helpful. I'll work these into my training plan. @XtrPickels, definitely like your idea around being able to surge and then recover (at a still high work level), definitely encountered that in many places on the Whistler Fondo last year, and my goal this year is to be in the next group up the road which will require being able to hammer a lot in the first 20-30 min before it settles down.

[gramboh]

I’m realizing that I’ve started running a slower cadence over the last 5-6 years. I mountain bike around 600-700 hours per year but mostly 14-15 hour weeks during bike season and I’ll ski mid winter.

I think my default cadence these days is around 70-75. Most rides I don’t shift from that or hit higher cadences often.

Is it a good idea for me to do some higher cadence spinning?

I have a few 100k races this year but I’m mainly trying to do the Kokopelli in about 14 hours and a quick time from Molas to Durango on the Colorado trail.

Last night I did a 95 cadence ride on my trainer for about 50 minutes (about 70-75% of ftp) and my main take away ways “yeah that felt really different”. It wasn’t hard or easy just a different type of fatigue.

Any thoughts?

I find my natural cadence in the endurance realm to be around 80-85rpm, and I used to do 85ish on harder efforts. For the last year or so I have made an effort to push higher cadence at and above threshold, usually 95rpm, and I find it makes a massive difference in not feeling fatigue in my legs. It took a while for my body to adapt to the higher cadence but now it feels natural. I still settle down to 80-85ish in zone 2. If I am recovering between intense intervals at zone 1 or lower I sometimes drop to 75rpm.

[basinbeater]

My training program (Garmin gran fondo plan) recommends doing higher intensity intervals at higher cadences, and I found that I do prefer 90-95 rpm for making more power. On sustained efforts, zone two stuff, or recovery, I try to keep it low to mid 80s. Pretty much on board with gramboh above.

[evasive_MT]

Why does Zwift now think my Garmin Cadence Sensor 2 is a Cycligentinc cadence sensor? That started happening after I updated to Windows 11 and reinstalled the ANT+ driver. I don’t care what it’s called as long as it detects it, but the cadence reading is frequently off. It varies but sometimes it’s as low as ~half what I’m spinning. It seems like it’s worse in Erg mode for a workout.

[Thaleia]

Been using Zwift almost daily since late December and I'm finding it harder and harder to drink water and eat after a work out. If I force water or gatorade I'll feel nauseous and sometimes dry heave or vomit the little bit I've ingested. These aren't generally super hard rides either.

If I wait about an hour it gets easier but it just seems really odd. On one hand I feel like I should be taking more in sooner to finishing, but on the other hand it's not like I'll be dying of thirst hours later.

Any ideas what might be going on?

[gramboh]

Been using Zwift almost daily since late December and I'm finding it harder and harder to drink water and eat after a work out. If I force water or gatorade I'll feel nauseous and sometimes dry heave or vomit the little bit I've ingested. These aren't generally super hard rides either.

If I wait about an hour it gets easier but it just seems really odd. On one hand I feel like I should be taking more in sooner to finishing, but on the other hand it's not like I'll be dying of thirst hours later.

Any ideas what might be going on?

How much are you drinking/eating during your training rides? Are you doing any kind of carb/salt mix or just water? For me, if I drink adequately on the ride, I don't really drink a ton directly after (outside of 3+ hour hard rides where I likely run out of fluid by the end).

[Thaleia]

How much are you drinking/eating during your training rides? Are you doing any kind of carb/salt mix or just water? For me, if I drink adequately on the ride, I don't really drink a ton directly after (outside of 3+ hour hard rides where I likely run out of fluid by the end).

I'm drinking very little during the rides. I force myself to take sips and not really prehydrating either. Not eating during.

It's really odd. My rides are generally ~ two hours after a light meal. Urine is generally fairly clear.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I used to be able to do two hour rides on just water, but as I got older I started feeling like crap.

Don’t know why that is, but I now have energy drink in my bottle even on short rides. I also drink more of it, so stay hydrated better. (Helps that for my whole life I’ve been trying to gain weight, not lose it.)

[bennymac]

Been using Zwift almost daily since late December and I'm finding it harder and harder to drink water and eat after a work out. If I force water or gatorade I'll feel nauseous and sometimes dry heave or vomit the little bit I've ingested. These aren't generally super hard rides either.

If I wait about an hour it gets easier but it just seems really odd. On one hand I feel like I should be taking more in sooner to finishing, but on the other hand it's not like I'll be dying of thirst hours later.

Any ideas what might be going on?

How do you feel during these rides - feeling nauseous and/or any belly pain?

[Thaleia]

I used to be able to do two hour rides on just water, but as I got older I started feeling like crap.

Don’t know why that is, but I now have energy drink in my bottle even on short rides. I also drink more of it, so stay hydrated better. (Helps that for my whole life I’ve been trying to gain weight, not lose it.)

Like a Redbull type drink or something else?

How do you feel during these rides - feeling nauseous and/or any belly pain?

While riding, not at all. Overall I feel good. I enjoy it. Any sicky stuff is right after the ride within about a half hour or so.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Like a Redbull type drink or something else?



While riding, not at all. Overall I feel good. I enjoy it. Any sicky stuff is right after the ride within about a half hour or so.

Sorry, shouldn’t have said energy, never drink those. Just a sugar water type drink.

[Thaleia]

Figured that but the wording threw me off, thanks for confirming.

[bean]

I just came across this study (thanks to XtrPickels’ Fast Talk podcast) by everyone’s favorite lactate enthusiast, looking at the effects of carb periodization in “well trained” cyclists (average vo2max 71) put on a five week training plan. In short, there was no difference between high-carb and periodized-carb groups. Not even a difference in fat vs carb utilization during exercise (though it would’ve been nice to see RER at rest in the data).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10820927/

Most important quote IMO: “No differences were found in CHO and LIP oxidation during the TTE for both groups (p > 0.05). Lastly, there were no changes in RER and VO2 at the MLSS for both groups pre- and post-intervention (p > 0.05)”

[smmokan]

I just came across this study (thanks to XtrPickels’ Fast Talk podcast) by everyone’s favorite lactate enthusiast, looking at the effects of carb periodization in “well trained” cyclists (average vo2max 71) put on a five week training plan. In short, there was no difference between high-carb and periodized-carb groups. Not even a difference in fat vs carb utilization during exercise (though it would’ve been nice to see RER at rest in the data).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10820927/

Most important quote IMO: “No differences were found in CHO and LIP oxidation during the TTE for both groups (p > 0.05). Lastly, there were no changes in RER and VO2 at the MLSS for both groups pre- and post-intervention (p > 0.05)”

In English please?

[climberevan]

Fat adaptation is a myth, so just give your body what it wants: carbs.

[EWG]

Fat adaptation is a myth, so just give your body what it wants: carbs.

All my body ever wants is fat and salt. Just sayin

[PeachesNCream]

Fat adaptation is a myth, so just give your body what it wants: carbs.

Really? How interesting. I had have always noticed my energy (and mood) seem to swing pretty drastically in relation to how recently I’ve had carbs. I figured I was very carb dependent and yesterday I had started regulating when I had carbs (no carbs after dinner or before lunch), nothing drastic but a starting point to try and slowly “teach” my body to burn fats. Seems like I may be wasting my time


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