ON3P SKIS Discussion

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Haha. You obviously have not watched his threads. That said, I'm sure if they are everything people claim, these may finally be keepers.

My Ski ADHD is a problem lol. That said but hey at least I don’t gouge on price when I re sale . I really liked the 186 but once I really got moving on them I wanted more ski. I’m a big boy at 6’1 220 husky fit and with some pretty good improvement in skiing this year I felt the 191 would be worth a try!

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Had some magic on the J118s this winter. Love em at -1.5cm. Soooo surfy and nimble but absolutely truck when needed. Exciting feedback on the new BG CallmeAl

You can blame this man for my On3p purchases.


And thank him for re-sales lol.

[cocoapuff]

Always happy to stoke the fire Kim

[Jvhowube]

Got my first day in on the 2024 BGs yesterday. This is my 5th pair of Billy Goats. Previous models owned:
2010 Non-RES (186?)
2014 RES (186)
2018 Asym (184)
2022 118 1.0 (187)
2024 118 2.0 (186)

Quiver: 2016 Stockli Stormrider 95 (183), 2024 Jeffrey 100 (186), 2019 Woodsman 108 (187), 2021 Woodsman 110 Tour (187), 2024 Billy Goat 118 (186)
Stats: 5’9” 170lb
Location/Conditions tested: Big Sky. 80% Choppy/good/cold snow, 10% breakable crust, 5% cold fresh snow, 5% hot pow/slush/corn.
Conditions not tested: Deep snow, warp speed. Re: speed, I was skiing fast enough to beat my sluff, just not truly opening it up (recovering from knee surgery).
First impressions/comparisons:
-Considerably looser/more playful than BG118 1.0

-More “precise” than Asyms- especially on harder snow. I’d use the word “stable” here, but I don’t think Asyms are necessarily unstable, just very loose; I kind of had to ski the Asyms sideways from beginning to end of turn to keep the ski’s mojo rolling. With the BG118 2.0, I was initiating/lining up my turns sideways w/the RES, and naturally finishing them through the fall line on the sidecut under my boot, which gave me more control when deciding where to start smearing into the next one.

-BG 118 2.0’s RES does its job in breakable crust better than Asym or BG118 1.0. I was worried that the wider tail might push the shovel forward/down in these situations which would lead to tailgunning, but it doesn’t. Not even close. I think the lower/nearly flat camber and extended tail rocker help with this. I was having fun doing big slash turns in untouched windcrust/pow while other good skiers in my group were surviving. I found BG118 1.0 only mediocre by BG standards in these situations- just not loose enough, and Asyms could be slightly less predictable in truly hollow conditions (thick slab over facets).

-The BG118 2.0’s tail actually has pop when you load it! Can’t say I’ve ever been on a BG that does this for me. 2014/Asym tails were too skinny to hold much of a preload, and the BG118 1.0 was too stiff/cambered for me to bend with my 170lbs (or my 180lbs last year).

-The uphill outside edge does do that weird Billy Goat thing on refrozen groomers where it wants to walk uphill/away from you when you aren’t paying attention. My 2014s did this too. Asyms didn’t because asym, nor did BG118 1.0 on account of their mile of camber.

-That’s all I had for notes. Most of you know that I used to work for ON3P which might shoot my credibility, but there seems to be some lurkers here looking for a hot take on the new BG, so there ya have it.

-TLDR: Come back in 2025 because last year’s are always better.

Damn I'm psyched to get these new BGs on snow... in 7 months

[grinch]

I had been feeling like my '23 bgt 110's were flapping around like dps wailer clownshoes. They seem like theyre longer and softer in the tips than my '18 bg asym and my old steeple 108's. Went ahead and mounted the bgt's +1.2. Immediately felt 100x better. I wont be able to test them for tip float until next year but im not worried. Im pretty sure theyll be fine and the tips wont be diving. +1.2 made for a great day today. I had been chaulking up all the instability to the light weight of them. Theyre still not stock bg super damp but going forward made them way more stable. No more apprehension just charge out of the gate. Psyched that worked. Ive felt something was missing

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[cocoapuff]

I have my stock core 187 110s at +1 and have never had any issues with tip dive. You should be good on that front.

[grinch]

I have my stock core 187 110s at +1 and have never had any issues with tip dive. You should be good on that front.

Good to know. Thanks

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[jacob_dbu]

I had been feeling like my '23 bgt 110's were flapping around like dps wailer clownshoes. They seem like theyre longer and softer in the tips than my '18 bg asym and my old steeple 108's. Went ahead and mounted the bgt's +1.2. Immediately felt 100x better. I wont be able to test them for tip float until next year but im not worried. Im pretty sure theyll be fine and the tips wont be diving. +1.2 made for a great day today. I had been chaulking up all the instability to the light weight of them. Theyre still not stock bg super damp but going forward made them way more stable. No more apprehension just charge out of the gate. Psyched that worked. Ive felt something was missing

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Speaking of the tour layups…personally have felt like my WD102 Tours don’t have that same ON3P feel…which is kind of a bummer.

Not sure if a 50/50 would fix it or if the full bamboo core is needed.

I love my WD102 in the regular layup. Wondering how I can get that similar feel at 1700g…maybe it’s not possible

[grinch]

Speaking of the tour layups…personally have felt like my WD102 Tours don’t have that same ON3P feel…which is kind of a bummer.

Not sure if a 50/50 would fix it or if the full bamboo core is needed.

I love my WD102 in the regular layup. Wondering how I can get that similar feel at 1700g…maybe it’s not possible

I think you get the stock lay up with the 50/50 just with thinner base and edges. I think thats how it goes. 50/50 bases and edges should be as thick as the big manufacturers and better quality. I think theyd feel very similar to stock builds. Im now out east so ive been thinking 50/50 as well. Out west most of the pow days i didnt feel the snowpack base when touring so ultra light was fine. Out east more often thzn not j feel the base under the new snow so im thinking the 50/50 might be the way. Also smaller climbs dont make ul skis as crucial. Im pretty psyched on my remount on the bgt though. I put insets in the old holes, in case i get a smaller bsl >1200g boot, and ill put inserts in the current mount eventually. That +1.2 really settled them down. Maybe i should do an early lap before it softens up to see how that goes.
Id like to add a wd 102/100(i think the new ones are 100 waist not sure) in the mix for my spring touring ski also. Not sure on 50/50 or tour build

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[FullStop]

I think you get the stock lay up with the 50/50 just with thinner base and edges.

Pretty sure it's the opposite - bamboo/pawlonia core with the full fat edge and base.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

50/50 Layup - bamboo-pawlonia hybrid core, shaves an average of ~200g per ski from Stock, and uses our full spec 2.5x2.5mm edge + corresponding base thickness. Best for those who tour <50% of their time, and want dual-purpose for touring + inbounds use.

[grinch]

Ahh i see. I dont think id consider that for inbounds. My steeple 102 and 108 with pintech bindings skied the dream inbounds but they werent real light. Maybe the shaved thinner steeple layup with thinner base and edges i could see being a nice 50/50 option. Its really rocky around my new local and low snow year but my bg and bg tour bases and edges have allowed me to have a bunch of skiing that people were avoiding or blowing up their skis. Ive been amazed how little the scratches have been. My buddy on his praxis and me on the on3p's gave us a bunch of amazing days that we didnt have to cross others turns because we knew we had the secret weapons. I bet the thinner base and edge would be fine with the base/edge materials they use. I could see a 177 wd 102 with steeple thinner edge/base being close to 1700g

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[PeachesNCream]

Ya, it always surprised me that they went with the full fat edge and base and kept the touring core for 50/50, I would have thought they would have done the opposite. A lot of the magic in an on3p is the energy you get from the bamboo core. A great core and “industry norm” edge and base sounds more enticing to me. Especially cause aren’t a lot of their park athletes in 50/50 cores? Maybe they save more weight going this route


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[jacob_dbu]

I’m just not sure if their bases or cores are what contribute most to the feel in the tour vs 50/50 vs stock.

I will say, I put a pretty massive base gouge in my tour skis on like day 3…not really holding up to my experience with their stock layup.

[grinch]

It has to be the stock cores. Nothing compares to them. No doubt bases and edges can be ripped to tge core on any ski on the right rock and/or tge right force but i immediately took mine off a couple times thinking ive really done it now. Only to find a few small scratches. My mfree 99's havent explored the untracked near as much and theyre a mess. Ive had to drip a few sticks of ptex and 5 or 6 poly patches in them. Although those dynastars are vastly improved over my old rossi bandits and dynastar coupe du mondes. Look at a rock from a distance of 50ft and a section of edge and base would immediately fall out. It got so i just skied the coup d mondes missing 8" of edge underfoot on all edges at lake louise. Last run down ladies dh manmade snow at the end of the day was sketchy af. As much as i like my mfree99 , on3p is just waaaay more durable. Add in bamboo dampness and on3p shapes and its a no brainer. Im set on avoiding the bic pen skis of the big manufacturers

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[Kootenai]

I’m confused. Are steeples a lighter core with heavy edges, base; or “rounder core” with lighter edges and base.

And how do they differ from the bgt110?

[grinch]

I think steeples had full edge and base and the cores were basically a shaved down stock core so the cores were a tad thinner saving a little weight. Ive heard some say a rounder flex but i found mine relatively close to my stock bg. Bg tours are proper light weight touring ski. I think my tours are more than 1lb lighter

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[XavierD]

Steeples were a thinner core profile, and I think lighter weight glass. Standard base/edge.

Correct current Hybrid are tour core with stock base/edge. I skied a hybrid BG118 inbounds a ton 22-23 season and thought they were pretty good.

[jacob_dbu]

I'd love to test out regular, 50/50, tour back-to-back. I also haven't skied my tours inbounds yet. I do love the Woodsman shape though, and my WD102 are out-of-my-cold-dead-hands kinda ski. Especially on a low tide season like this.

[kid-kapow]

I posted this post from NS in this thread a few years ago, but will repost it as it is relevant for the last few posts and as it is a wealth of knowledge:

Alright I'll address all of this. Keep in mind, sure you could ski park on a 50/50 or a tour and they probably would a pretty fun park ski given how light they are, but the "tour core" is not going to be as durable as the "stock" core. Bamboo is just a stronger material. Losing grams is not free, but paulownia is a pretty good trade off. Paulownia is quite a bit lighter (less dense) compared to bamboo and is not as strong as bamboo.

kid-kapow paulownia is wood that is used in lots and lots of skis (from ON3P, Icelantic, Moment, Line, and so on) and snowboards (throughout Mervin's range - aka Lib and Gnu) usually mixed with other types of wood such as bamboo, ash, maple or aspen. Its use is not limited to touring skis.

Most of what ON3P builds uses a 100% bamboo core. The only time paulownia is used is when weight savings is an objective. I can't speak to other brands but at ON3P paulownia is only used when the ski is intended to do well going both uphill and downhill.

kid-kapow In this case I would assume that the extra thick bases took up the slack compared to other wood cores used in skis from other manufacturers or bamboo. There is also not a huge difference in density between bamboo and paulownia. Some claim it is the tree with the heighest strenght to weight ratio of all trees and others have found that has similar properties to poplar, the he most commonly used species of wood for ski cores according to 4FRNT. 4FRNT also specify that they add paulownia to poplar cores to decrease weight while also increasing the torsional strength.

The advantage of a 50/50 layup (thicker base/edge) vs the tour layup (thinner base/edge) is really to give better impact resistance to rocks, stumps, etc... The thicker UHMW and steel does slightly stiffen the ski, but it mainly adds weight and increases impact resistance. We were hesitant for a long time to build a ski with thinner base and edge since ON3P is predicated on durability, but we wanted to build a competitive touring ski and realized how much weight could be saved by going to a thinner base and edge. When we started testing the tour cores, torsional rigidity was a factor at the top of our mind, and torsionally the tour cores hold up to the stock cores. This has to do with the spacing of the bamboo stringers in the core, the mount plate, and the triaxial fiberglass.

I'm not sure about the weights and densities listed in that thread. If you go to wood-database.com, paulownia is listed density at 280 kg/m3. Bamboo density is listed with a range of 500-850 kg/m3. At ON3P we have found our paulownia to be slightly lighter than these figures and the bamboo in the lighter side of the 500-850 range. If you look at the elastic modulus, paulownia is listed at 635,000 lbf/in2 and bamboo at 2,610,000 lbf/in2. A real world example of this is how easy it is to break a piece of paulownia vs how difficult it is to break a piece of bamboo... bamboo just bends and paulownia snaps. In comparison to paulownia, bamboo is a little more than twice as dense, yet based on the elastic modulus about 4 times as strong.

kid-kapow So based on my understanding paulownia seem like a realtively suitable core material for the use. So why do you strongly recommend against it? Have you had issues after use with your skis?

The reason I ask is not to call you, but but to understand where you are coming from. Especially as I would not hesitate to do anything with 50/50 ON3Ps that I do on standard layup ON3Ps.

I think paulownia is a great material and very suitable core material. I was pretty pretty blown away with how well it skied. I would just hesitate at using it in the park.. or any time the ski will be taking heavy impacts, I just know that bamboo reacts better to a folding impact. I have never had any issues with my skis nor have my friends... Its just what I layed out before that makes me want to steer people away from it. I'm sure you could get away with riding the 50/50 or tour in the park but I also think that 100% bamboo meets the conditions of park riding much better than paulownia.

I've skied woods108tours, wood110s stock and 50/50 layup. The two latter feels more similar imho, the former is noticably lighter.

I think the 50/50 core as is makes a ton of sense - added durability. A lot of the damp feel comes from the thicker edges and bases.

And yeah, Steeples are touring skis in name only. They are realistically better labeled as slightly rounder flexed slightly lighter soft snow focused resort skis. They will still be heavier than a lot of other brands' dedicated resort skis

[jacob_dbu]

I think a 50/50 version could be in my future for sure.

[N1CK.]

I'm posting up my 182cm Woods 110 Tours later today. Just FYI since we're talking layup/core.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Not sure if this worked but this base is incredible! Apparently, it was supposed to be a top sheet and got printed as a base!

Also found out this guy is a bit of a tweener between the current BG and the 1.0. Has a lower camber than the current BG, with the 1.0 dimensions. Excited to get on these in some slush this weekend at Frank!

[PeachesNCream]

Not sure if this worked but this base is incredible! Apparently, it was supposed to be a top sheet and got printed as a base!

Also found out this guy is a bit of a tweener between the current BG and the 1.0. Has a lower camber than the current BG, with the 1.0 dimensions. Excited to get on these in some slush this weekend at Frank!

Pics didn’t work for me, but very curious to hear more about these lower camber BGs


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[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Pics didn’t work for me, but very curious to hear more about these lower camber BGs


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It wouldn’t let me post. Do we have to use a Google share now?